Division and Gun to start with?

[Wasz]

I'm not exactly seeing what I'm searching for so I figured I would ask. I've been reading about USPSA, I've run a couple little stages that they set up at a local club. Its more of a big group of people that show up to hang out for the day and they leave up whatever stage they have in the house type thing. I shot it with a borrowed STI edge that a friend shoots in limited. I've watched on TV for years and the times I tried it I had fun.

Being a nursing student time and the fact that I'm flat broke prohibit pursuit of this sport currently (come on Dec 2008 graduation), but I have intentions to start when I can.

My thoughts were to start out in production maybe with a SP01 just because I like that gun, and since I won't be reloading 9mm would be easier cost wise. Is production a reasonable place to start? Is this sound reasoning or would there be a better place for me to learn the game?

[Resjudicata]

Production division is a great place to learn the game and a CZ SP-01 is a great gun to shoot in that division. Spend some bathroom time reading the rule book (the new one for 2008 just came out) and shoot as much locally as you can. Get to know as many of the other shooters as you can and don't forget to ask questions. Sometimes the more experienced shooters would be happy to help but are hesitant to offer because it may come across as pushy.

Chris

[scribble]

I agree that the 9mm would be a good idea to start with and the CZ is a good platform. I would also suggest looking into a M&P, Glock, or XD.

[JoshF]

I agree with the Chrises (sp?)

Production is a great class to start with. The most common platforms that will get you started on a budget and take you far in that class would be CZ SP01, Glock 34 and XD 9mm Tactical. Try them all out if you can then pic the model you like best. I really liked the SP01 when I was looking for my production gun but just couldn't get over the DA/SA transition so I went XD. Cost wise production's ammo, holsters and magazines are the cheapest of any class. This leaves more money for ammo and match fees!

As for shooting production you'll find a huge benefit is the mags and the guns just RUN! No tweaking, playing or anything. This is very important starting out and will let you concentrate on the basics. Also production forces you to draw from a full holster, reload a LOT and shoot for A's. Master these and other classes will come easily.

After you get the new job and bucks start rolling in, then you start shopping for all the Limited, Open, etc gun(s) of your choice.

Edited November 27, 2007 by KSmoker

[G-ManBart]

Welcome!

Production is probably the smartest place to start for most people. The SP01 is a good gun, but don't sell the others short. Right now some of the other common guns are Glock, Springfield XD, and S&W M&Ps. If you can get your hands on and hopefully shoot one of each you'll find the one that feels the best to you. There's nothing wrong with the CZ, just know that the DA/SA trigger takes more getting used to and for many, will never be as good a choice as double-action-only. R,

[toddrod]

Production is a great place to start, and so ids the CZ.

We have alot in common.

I shoot production with a CZ and I am an ICU nurse. Welcome to the profession.

[AK74]

After you get the new job and bucks start rolling in, then you start shopping for all the Limited, Open, etc gun(s) of your choice.

I guess I am a little backwards, I started shooting IPSC in open, then shot in limited for a long time, then L10 (with a single stack) then PSS.

I just purchased a M&P 9 and shot it in Production Saturday, and its not just me several other long time limited shooters at my local clubs are now shooting in production, its not just for new shooters.

Shooting productions requires you to focus on the basics, accuracy, reloading and planning out you stages are important because you’re shooting minor and are limited to 10 rounds.

Production is all about shooting, everyone’s pistols, holsters and ammo are very similar, you don’t have the equipment related distraction you have shooting in open or limited, this appeals to both new and veteran competitors alike.

[FranDoc]

This is my first year in USPSA competition and I have to echo 'all the above'.

Production guns are the least expensive and the least finicky. They run, period. My XD has run in downpours, 90 degree heat, 30 degree frost, and during an LE (law enforcement, if you're not familiar with the abbreviation) class drill that had us practicing falling down while armed ... into the desert grit.

Most gunsmiths are familiar with production guns and can help you fix most anything that's not working correctly. 9mm is the cheapest ammo (short of .22, no division for that in USPSA currently). In Production, everybody is on a level playing field while shooting 9mm; you're not penalized for 'shooting minor'.

If you haven't purchased a gun, go to the local matches and clubs, and ask to test fire other people's guns. See what feels good in your hands, feel the balance, look at the sight picture, move around with it and see how fast you can re-acquire your stance, grip & acceptable sight picture. Find out what YOU can shoot well, not what everybody else might think you should own.

Welcome aboard. This is a game, a sport, and an addiction; some of the best people on earth play here. And you'll find that the range is a GREAT place to go to get your mind off a 12-hour shift.

[Catfish]

You're on the right track. It is a myth that you need a $4000 gun + another grand in equipment to be competitive and have fun.

Welcome!

[Wasz]

Thanks for the replies. Its good to know that my train of thought wasn't off the tracks.

[Wideload]

And if money is tight, there are some deals on lightly used CZ75/85's out there. Also don't discount the Glock 17 or 3rd Gen S&W 9mm's. There are still good buys to be found if you keep your eyes open. These guns will all get you started in the right path.

[JFD]

Production is a great division to start in. You learn to get your hits and Limited or Open reloads will be cake after all the practice you'll get in Production.

[boz1911]

You're on the right track. It is a myth that you need a $4000 gun + another grand in equipment to be competitive and have fun.

Welcome!

Myth???

[warpspeed]

Another path would be Single Stack.

The 1911 platform is hard to beat. Cost would probably be a little higher but if you transition to a STI type gun in the future, it will a smooth one. There are several threads around here on doing a SS on a budget.

Your ammo cost would be higher as 45 is a bit more than 9mm.

Just another option. But you certainly do not need to start playing this game with a $ 2K gun.

[Nemo]

You're on the right track with production div. Also, the SP01 is a great choice but, like others have said, don't write-off the other alternatives just yet. So you have an idea of the initial cost, here are some quick numbers.

You can get a used Glock17 (LIKE THIS ONE ) for less than $400.

Glock magazines let's say 4 extra at $20 = $80

BladeTech Injection Molded Belt Holster -> $18

BladeTech Millenium Double Mag pouch -> $20 each X 2 = $40

That rig would set you back about $550 but will give you million$ of fun. Add some WallyWorld Winchester white box ammo and you will be ready to rock.

Then, after graduation, when you're making a lot of money go ahead and get that super blaster you dream of.

Don't forget a good stiff belt.

[vrmn1]

I guess production is a little cheaper than revolver but you won't be as cool.

I promise you this if you start with a revolver you WILL be a better shooter when you go to any other division.

If you do want to shoot a slide gun though I would look around and find a used Glock 17.

You can still find police trade ins for low $300 range. A $20 or less Uncle Mikes or even a Fobus plastic holster and a couple of cheap plastic double mag pouches and you can be shooting for less than $500. Then when and if you want to change you can still have a good carry gun.

Or what my buddy Nemo said.

Edited November 28, 2007 by vrmn1

[Madcap Magician]

WARNING: You are getting into a highly addictive sport...

Production is definitely the way to go. Look into the Glocks or M&Ps for a real low cost starter. Glocks are a dime a dozen, tons of accessories, and work great out of the box. I think the 34 and 19 are probably the best two they make. Good luck with your journey into action shooting...

[tk4]

If you are worried about cost, get a used square deal b dillon reloader. You can probably find one for about $250. It will save you a lot of money in the long run over buying factory ammo. I resisted getting one because I didn't think I had the time to reload, but it just doesn't take that long.

If you know that you want an edge in the future like your buddies that you have shot, start out with an M&P 9mm. It points nearly the same as my edge, so it would be an easy transition. Until Jan 31st S&W is offering $50 cash back and 2 free mags with the purchase of a new M&P.

[AK74]

I think it’s important for a new competitive shooter to have others shooting in the same class and division to compete with, and measure there progress against.

The popularity and makeup of the different divisions varies from club to club.

At our last match Limited was the largest division followed by Production (20+), Open, L10 (about a dozen), SS (5) and revolver (1).

[Pyre602]

I think that's the entire point of the production division, a place where people can start shooting with what they have without breaking the bank. The glock, xd, and cz are all great platforms for prod. Find one that fits your hand, and go out and have fun.

[dirtypool40]

Ok I'll be the one voice of dissent. I just hope I'm allowed this opinion....

I love my skinny guns, and production can be fun, but I came to IPSC fro IDPA for the high cap run and gun goodness. If you really wanna experience the fun of solving a complex course at high speed.... GET TO HIGH CAP LIMITED as quickly as you can.

Glock 35 or Para P-16, a rig and at least four high caps. Learn to shoot creatively (High Cap) and aggressively (Major). Add base pads and a magwell to your G34 Production racer and you've spent roughly $150 more for a truly competitive Limited gun. Para will be more, but will roughly simulate that Edge you liked. If S&W would get off their assets and release the 5" gun the world is waiting for, I'd probably lean that way as an entry level pistol, but the Glock and Para will work.

If you reload, loading .40 major isn't that much more, if any, than buying Wally World 9mm.

For me, high cap / major is where the fun is. GET SOME!!!

Edited December 7, 2007 by dirtypool40

[Wasz]

Single stack could be fun. I don't know why but it kind of appeals to me, but I don't know if I'd go that route. On the up side of that I know someone who's well versed with 1911s and could learn me up a great deal about making it run mechanically and course of fire. So that could be kinda cool, but more money all around probably. I guess really neither here nor there, since my girlfriend is all about having a .45 I could get into reloading just .45s.

But here we get the crux of the problem. The main idea here is that I have a LOT to learn. Money and time have to be divided and devoted. If I jump in head first, that might be tough for me. Trying to learn reloading and how to shoot the sport not to mention how I'd pay for it. Understand I'm 23 and still live at home so in about a year when I'm gainfully employed I'm going to be thinking place to live, car, student loans, and lastly toys. The idea here is to figure out a way I can actually involve myself in the sport to some degree. Its not very easy to get excited about reading constantly and not doing anything. Priority one is a gun and gear so I can get active with the sport. What will come with that are the books and drills and all that stuff. Then at some point after that when money permits or I feel I'm ready to really sit down and learn what and how to reload I'll be working on that.

So while I realize its better to reload for myself and it might be cool to go to town with a limited gun, I really just want a way to finally get my hands on something real and start putting into affect all the stuff I've been reading about for months now. That said all these opinions have really got me to start thinking and thats 75% of the fun. They say the real fun is in wanting something more so than having it. So now I get to sit and ponder and window shop 1911's for single stack and decide what kind of limited gun I would run. (If I like the sp01 maybe I could run a tactical sport in .40 for limited that should be an easy transition?)

Thanks everyone.

Oh and another question. Whats the "goal" for this stuff. Is everyone aiming to shoot limited? Or is it shooting multiple divisions and picking the one that you have the best shot of placing in at a given shoot? Sort of like a fighter manipulating his weight to move around in classes?

[HoMiE]

Oh and another question. Whats the "goal" for this stuff. Is everyone aiming to shoot limited? Or is it shooting multiple divisions and picking the one that you have the best shot of placing in at a given shoot? Sort of like a fighter manipulating his weight to move around in classes?

I think most shooters do it just for the sheer fun of shooting whatever gun you have. The biggest competition is yourself.

[JFD]

I don't know if anyone has a particular goal, but lots of ammo in the gun and race gear is a hell of a lot of fun. Most stages are also designed with Limited/Open in mind.

My wife started in L-10 with my gun and gear. I moved her to Limited ASAP just because it's easier to get on with the shooting/movement when you aren't dealing with reloads all the time. I was a fairly experienced shooter when I started USPSA in L-10, so reloads were no big deal at all. My wife started out a toal newbie.

Limited can be done relatively cheaply with a Glock, but you can drop $1K+ easily if you start adding on a ton of "must have" items that you might not need. Extended mags for Glocks are certainly cheaper. It's costs me $80 for a Para extended mag, while my Glock extended mags cost maybe $40.

Edited to say I think SS is a bad idea and I agree with AK-74 that it's better and a lot more fun to compete against as many folks as possible. Around here SS is close to Revolver for having few to zero shooters.

Edited December 8, 2007 by JFD