SMM3G lotto

[blackhat]

Okay dont mean to seem like a noob.... How many envelopes are drawn? Thx guys >.<

[Bill Sahlberg]

If anyone wants to shoot this match, I would suggest getting the "lottery" in right away and start making plans to travel as this is one match that has no difficulty filling up. 90% of the shooters live within a 4 hour drive of the match and have one of the best facilities for 3 Gun anywhere in the USA.

"3 Guns are 3 times the Fun"

[AZ Stats Chic]

Okay dont mean to seem like a noob.... How many envelopes are drawn? Thx guys >.<

As many as will fill the match. You are allowed up to four applications per envelope. (see the rules) I'm not at home right now... so I can't tell you exactly how many competitors + sponsored slots = a full match. Sponsored shooters are not included in the lottery, so if any sponsor has alloted slots which are not used after a certain deadline date - those unused slots will go to those on the waiting list (if there is one... probably). I would guess around 200 competitors (non-sponsored / non-staff) will be picked - lottery-style.

A2Chic

[benny hill]

Will not be there again this year as I think the "lotto" system sucks. Please no tears.

[AZ Stats Chic]

Will not be there again this year as I think the "lotto" system sucks. Please no tears.

[jhgtyre]

Will not be there again this year as I think the "lotto" system sucks. Please no tears.

Why not posit a better solution to managing applications for a wildly popular match that sells out in 5 minutes if left unchecked rather than just saying the "lotto" system sucks? The people running the match are trying to make the competitors happy and I am willing to bet that running the lottery requires more work than just pulling names off of the mail pile.

-ld

[jackboyd]

God bless all the Rio Salado people that work so hard to put on the most popular 3-gun match in the country.

By the way, everyone that signed up for last year's Superstition got in, including the waiting list.

[joer]

+1 with Jack -

[benny hill]

I think the area 2 people are top's & their matches are top shelf. I just think there should be a better way. Don't want to make plans & get days off planned & then wait untill next year to find out if you are slected. Maybe I'm wrong, wont be the first time today.

[smokshwn]

+1 with Benny

Regardless of how good the match or the staff is, due to the way my vacation is drawn it rules out any of the lottery matches.

As an example, I have to draw vacation on Dec 6th. If I take the time off for SMM3G and A2 for next year that is two draws that are spent on those matches. If I don't get into the match that is essentially a wasted draw for me(only get so many draws) and now I have days off I don't need. Instead I will shoot matches that I know I can attend.

[Wakal]

I'm with Benny. I liked the match, I like the staff, but I won't go if I can't make plans in advance. The "send in applications by XXX, must be postmarked YYY or later" thing was fine. This "lotto" thing...not so much.

Now if those folks in West Texas would throw the Texas State 3 Gun again, THAT was a match! And they took regular applications, no games

Alex

[Religious Shooter]

The "send in applications by XXX, must be postmarked YYY or later" thing was fine. This "lotto" thing...not so much.

The old system required the use of overnight mail. That's like $25-30. The current system doesn't.

With the current system... the apps are up around 11/1 and by 12/15 the initial decision is made if you got in or not. The match is on 3/29/08. That's 4.5 months in advance with the current system vs. maybe 6 months in advance with the old system.

4.5 months(!!!!) in advance with the current system.

So the old system gives about an additional 1.5 months but costs the shooters $25-30 per over night envelope.

I prefer the current system. 4.5 months (!!!!!!!!!) advance notice is ample for 97% of the available shooters.

[smokshwn]

First

1 month, 3 months, 4.5 months, or 10 months of notice, doesn't change a thing for those who have to draw vacation a year ahead of time.

Second

It's very obvious from the shooter list of A2 that there were either a lot of folks who didn't get in or a whole lot who didn't even try. Either way the result of the lottery affected the level of competition at the match.

Third

Airfare, rental car, lodging, entry fees, food, gun, ammo, etc. $30 doesn't make the radar.

I agree that there is no ideal solution to matches that have more interest than slots, however when the choice is made, I will choose those matches I know I can plan, budget, enter, and attend without any finger and toe crossing.

Now wouldn't it be nice if we could know when Nationals will be

Edited November 29, 2007 by smokshwn

[Religious Shooter]

If you have to draw vacation slots a year ahead your screwed with both the old system and the current system. All the old system would have given you is maybe 1-1.5 months more time (if you got submittal in first) and lightened your wallet $30.

[smokshwn]

Gordon,

The old system worked just fine for me, I had no troubles whatsoever getting to A2. This year with the dates for the lottery falling after my vacation draw the new system negates my desire to waste a vacation draw on a "chance" to attend.

As an example I will draw my vacation on Dec. 6th this year. It is not very smart to draw vacations without knowing the outcome of a drawing. Therefore my only choice is to pick matches I know I can get into. With the old system I was 100% in my attempts at getting into A2 as it was very clear (along with any other match not using a lottery system) what had to be done successfully receive a slot. With a lottery that is no longer the case. Feel free to continue to roll the dice for match slots,that is your choice. However, regardless of my desire to attend, for me (and many others) the lottery system does not and will not work.

Edited November 29, 2007 by smokshwn

[Religious Shooter]

Man if I was you I'd roll the dice.

I'm 4/4 (A2 and SMM3G) and all the people I know who were in the waiting list made it in.

... and you should put in for the R&R match. That match kicked ass.

[smokshwn]

I'm 4/4 (A2 and SMM3G) and all the people I know who were in the waiting list made it in.

... and you should put in for the R&R match. That match kicked ass.

Would like to make R&R and a couple of others but the hardest part is getting firm dates by the end of November every year.

As far as waiting lists go, I would be curious to know how many total applications were sent this year compared to last. From the looks of attendance I would guess that the total numbers were down.

See you RM3G at least

[Brazos]

I dont care for the lottery either. Plus, if I cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just the one's lucky enough to get drawn, then that's just one more reason for me not to go.

Now, Relgious Shooter, I dont know you or who you are, but all this excuse making about the old system versus the new really doesnt impress me all that much. Take a look at Ft. Benning 3 Gun. They had a mail-in policy, NO over-night excepted (so no $30), the match was as big as SMM3G and they had notices out to the shooters accepted within a few days of receipt of application. Not that hard. Is their system perfect? No. But it does seem that some folks out there can do what SMM3G does...WITHOUT a lotto.

I wont be back. Too bad, it was a fun match.

B

[Religious Shooter]

I dont care for the lottery either. Plus, if I cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just the one's lucky enough to get drawn, then that's just one more reason for me not to go.

Now, Relgious Shooter, I dont know you or who you are, but all this excuse making about the old system versus the new really doesnt impress me all that much. Take a look at Ft. Benning 3 Gun. They had a mail-in policy, NO over-night excepted (so no $30), the match was as big as SMM3G and they had notices out to the shooters accepted within a few days of receipt of application. Not that hard. Is their system perfect? No. But it does seem that some folks out there can do what SMM3G does...WITHOUT a lotto.

I wont be back. Too bad, it was a fun match.

I don't see where the hate is coming from. Why do you not like the Lotto system?

Because you "cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just the one's lucky enough to get drawn"? The best shooters in the country are usually in this match. If you are talking about Benny Hill not going... OK.

95+% of the better shooters that are going. The fact is that the best shooters in the country are usually sponsored and have another avenue of getting in --- sponsors get slots that are outside of the lotto system. Not shooting against the best shooter's in the nation isn't a good argument as the best shooter's in the nation are going to be shooting this match ---- except for Mr. Hill. And frankly I still don't quite understand what Benny's beef is.

Because you "cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just the one's lucky enough to get drawn"? How is this different from the fact that sending the application via US mail is in itself a "lotto"? How long do you think a letter will take if it is sent from Georgia vs. one from say Alaska or Hawaii? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the system that FB3Gun uses favors the geographically close? So somebody can say that with FB3Gun you "cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just one's lucky enough to be close to Ft Benning?" Does that make sense?

Honestly... other than the fact that you can't hedge your chances by sending your application via one day air and there is a month and a half delay there is no difference from the old system and from what FB3Gun does.

My ass got in. There are 17 people on the wait list and Barb says that it is highly likely they will get in.

I guess it's kind of a blessing that some people have this weird thing against the system. As the people who don't have the hang-up are getting in.

[el pres]

I'm in!!! Got in last year too, no problem..

Infact, I dont know anybody how did not get in???

[PacMan]

I'm in!!! Got in last year too, no problem..

Infact, I dont know anybody how did not get in???

I didn't...yet anyway Doesn't matter, I will practice the same and already have my vacation planned, if I don't get to go, oh well, c'est la vie!

[smokshwn]

I'm in!!! Got in last year too, no problem..

Infact, I dont know anybody how did not get in???

That's exactly the point....no one enters anymore....everyone gets in....take a look at the entrants to A2, definitely not the field from 06.

[smokshwn]

I don't see where the hate is coming from. Why do you not like the Lotto system?

For one it simply doesn't work for my needs as far as vacation goes.

Because you "cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just the one's lucky enough to get drawn"? The best shooters in the country are usually in this match. If you are talking about Benny Hill not going... OK.

I will throw the BS flag here...look at the A2 07 shooter list...there are some painfully obvious omissions..now that effect may be smaller in the 3 gun world however it does remain.

And frankly I still don't quite understand what Benny's beef is.

You are the only one who doesn't seem to grasp it

Because you "cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just the one's lucky enough to get drawn"? How is this different from the fact that sending the application via US mail is in itself a "lotto"? How long do you think a letter will take if it is sent from Georgia vs. one from say Alaska or Hawaii? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the system that FB3Gun uses favors the geographically close? So somebody can say that with FB3Gun you "cant shoot against the best shooters in the country instead of just one's lucky enough to be close to Ft Benning?" Does that make sense?

Actually, there are several factors that affect the delivery of mail. According to a friend who makes his living at bulk mail, geography is about third or fourth on the priority list.

Honestly... other than the fact that you can't hedge your chances by sending your application via one day air and there is a month and a half delay there is no difference from the old system and from what FB3Gun does.

It's not called hedging, it's called preparation and planning.

My ass got in. There are 17 people on the wait list and Barb says that it is highly likely they will get in.

Only seventeen on the waiting list huh? Sounds to me like not near as many people even sent apps as in years past....that speaks volumes

I guess it's kind of a blessing that some people have this weird thing against the system. As the people who don't have the hang-up are getting in.

Lighten up on the judgement, Frances...for quite a number of people the lotto system simply does not work. I am sure you don't buy things that don't work for you, so cool down on those who don't buy what doesn't work for them.

In a backdoor sort of way the lotto system has worked in that it drastically reduced the number of applications sent in. Problem solved

[bigbrowndog]

Somebody throw some water on that man!! He seems HOT.

Sorry to hear your not going to make it, I agree with you that the reason people have no problem getting in, NOW is due to lack of entries. I also cannot understand the problem with paying just a little more( in the big picture) to ensure that your entry arrives on the alloted date.

The last time I sent in an entry on the old system, it cost me 16.00 WHOLE dollars, to guarantee delivery on the alloted date.

WOW, 16.00 dollars, thats like, less than a quarter tank of fuel, or the amount of fuel it takes for me to get to the range and back for practice.

Trapr

[smokshwn]

I would love to make the match, and if Barb can move the lotto deadline up next year so that applicants know the results prior to the end of NOV, I will certainly send in an app...until that happens, for me it is a tough issue to make work.

Besides....I am saving up my money for a trip to England or Europe.....I hear that's where all the bad mofo's shoot

Edited December 18, 2007 by smokshwn