BDH Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I worked the Hoosier 3 for All match so I got to see a lot of different rifles come through my stage. One thing that completely amazed me, was how few of them cycled reliably. I would guess that fewer than 20% (and probably less than 10%), of the shooters ran the stage without some type of jamb, or feed problem!!! I don't know if this was caused by the very cold weather (30's), reloaded ammo problems, or some other problem, but I just can't believe that AR reliability is that bad. If I you were going to buy or build a new AR for some 3 gunning, what would you buy? One thing I will tell you is that the couple of JP's that came through, DID run. Are they flat out the best?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Yes the JP's are the best. I've had good luck with the Bushmasters. I can't remember ever having a jam with it. Our duty issued Colts run fine too. The training has been conducted in weather from 20 degrees to 95 degrees without problems. Most of the problems I've seen are from junk mags and crap ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Or from using too thick a lube at low temps. Grease is excellent in nice weather, but gets hard and stops things up when it's cold. AR15's are pretty reliable oveall IMHO. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 well brian i shoot that match and my ar worked fine. so i'd have to say that cavalry arms work pretty good. i've always found that with good mags most ar's work. some of those used milatry have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 The only time my Bushmaster puked on me is when I overloaded the mag. Otherwise, it runs and runs. A friend's JP jammed because of a plastic mag geometry was a little off and needed some filing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Likely too much dust and too many cob-webs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 9, 2003 Author Share Posted April 9, 2003 Well, most of the problems I saw were on the morning squads, and I saw what I thought was a higher failure to cycle rate on the handguns as well, so maybe it was too much lube and cold weather. No doubt there were some mag and ammo problems as well, but I was still really surprised with all the problems. Glad to hear that this sounds more like the exception, than the rule. Of course, Flex may be on to something as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 BDH, Lack of reliability has "stuck out like a sore thumb" at every 3-gun match that I have been to. (granted, that isn't many) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I shoot PMC at competition and Armscor for practice. I have had the Armscor jam in my Bushmaster a couple of times but the PMC's have not given me any trouble. I found that if I do not try to load the magazine to the max that solves the Armscor problem. I have had a little work done recently on the AR and it seems a little more particular about what round that I put through it but it now shoots like my 10/22 and is more accurate at long range. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Flexdinero: Where do you 3-gun? It is rare a AR jambs here in Colorado when cold! or hot come to think of it. *So rare we all kind of stand around and stare. Of coures Rocky Mountain 3-Gun has been around since the late 80s so we have probably gotten past the learning curve many of the newer clubs and shooters are now reaching!*( can't get the darn smiley face to work!) More to the point of the question, any well made AR ( not a pieced together buddy super deal gun), like colt, bushmaster, armelite, rock river etc. will work fairly jamb free. The caviat is of course good ammo, good mags, and PROPPER maintainence. A lot of jambs I have seen over the years are from trick of the month gadgets and "super lubes". On the ammo deal, why people show up to a match they paid a lot of money to enter and then shoot the cheapest "velosomax super FMJ" that they can find is just beyond me! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Same reason they buy 6 mags for 20 bucks and wonder why they don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 ... good ammo, good mags, and PROPPER maintainence. I think you hit the nail on the head. That...and the "time in the saddle" that you spoke of. Around here, the guns come out the night before the match, then get put away right after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I think it was the cold and the fact that it was early in the season. Not many people had the opportunity to get the rifle out to the range and work out bugs. I didn't get to see all the shooters on the rifle stages but there were alot of quality AR's that were having a tough time running. Mags/dirt whatever, it was getting everyone. I have to say one of the worst jamming runs I saw was Deb Cheek's morning run. She is sponsered my JP so I would think her's is a pretty good example. When she was shooting through the barrel her AR basically became a really cool, expensive looking bolt action!!! There were some really nice rifles on the racks that day, but all in all I would have been much happier feeling disgusted with my 500 dollar cheapo OLY and the jams than looking at a 2000+ custom rifle with the same problems!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 3QT, yep, Deb's run was not good, but it seemed that there were a lot of semi-autos that functioned like bolt actions that morning. Also, I think that Deb might have been one of the ones that had problems with her pistol going all the way into battery as well. I can't remember for sure, but there were several people that had that problem as well, so I assume the cold was a big factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 I worked the Hoosier 3 for All match so I got to see a lot of different rifles come through my stage. One thing that completely amazed me, was how few of them cycled reliably. I would guess that fewer than 20% (and probably less than 10%), of the shooters ran the stage without some type of jamb, or feed problem!!! I don't know if this was caused by the very cold weather (30's), reloaded ammo problems, or some other problem, but I just can't believe that AR reliability is that bad.If I you were going to buy or build a new AR for some 3 gunning, what would you buy? One thing I will tell you is that the couple of JP's that came through, DID run. Are they flat out the best?? Hey! My AR worked just fine . . . and worked . . . and worked . . . given my reshoot and my full-auto "unload," I fired more rounds than anyone else and nary a hiccup. It's pretty much a stock Colt Match Target HBAR II. It's had a bit of a trigger job, a Smith Ent. comp added, and a Leupold 1-4x20mm scope on the top. Oh, and an M16A1 stock. My Bushmaster AK shorty also runs without hesitation . . . You can't go wrong with an A-B-C gun (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt) unless you modify too much (improperly) or fail to maintain it properly. I know that my brother's "manual action" AR was a result of improper maintenance (everything inside his bolt carrier was a rusted mess!). Rock River Arms is allegedly making a good product too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hey 3QT, no excuses now, did you shoot "your" 3-gun match? with an "Oly" or otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I came, I shot, I stank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hey! My AR worked just fine . . . and worked . . . and worked . . . given my reshoot and my full-auto "unload," I fired more rounds than anyone else and nary a hiccup. Rhino, yes, your AR DID run (and run and run and run). Like I said earlier, it seemed that most of the problems were in the morning, and if I remember correctly your 'burn the stage down' performance was in the afternoon. There is no doubt that some of the AR's ran just fine. Maybe this made such a big impact on me because I am used to pistol stages, and while I'm used to seeing 'some' amount of failure to feed problems, I had never witnessed anything like all the AR problems. BTW, has your barrel cooled off yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Maybe this made such a big impact on me because I am used to pistol stages, and while I'm used to seeing 'some' amount of failure to feed problems, I had never witnessed anything like all the AR problems.... BTW, has your barrel cooled off yet? I think someone mentioned that this was the first 3-gun of the year for a lot of people and I suspect that most of the problems were maintenance related. When you treat an AR the right way, it won't let you down. The barral might still be a bit warm . . . that's why I like to shoot in the snow, so I can just jam it compensator-first into a snow drift and then keep on shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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