Why shoot major?

[Dave Gundry]

Sorry to be such a newbie, but if I am understanding things correctly, there are 2 sections of each category - major & minor. I understand how the power factors are measured and attained, but my question is why? Is competition too stiff in minor?

I realize this is probably a severely open-ended debate/question that has been discussed before, but my searching proved fruitless...

Any insight is appreciated,

Thanks,

Dave

[XRe]

Major and Minor PF shooters are not treated as if they were in separate divisions. They are competing directly against one another. There's no "High A Minor" or anything like that.

The simple fact is that the reduction in power factor - even shooting at 126-ish - does not typically allow you to gain enough speed to make up for the points differential. Some folks have come close at certain times, but... its few and far between.

[Loves2Shoot]

It all comes down to math.

[G-ManBart]

+1 On XRe's comments.

If you are shooting Minor in Limited-10, Limited or Open you're still competing against all the same people on an even basis. The difference is that if you shoot a C and they shoot a C you lose an extra point that they don't. You pretty much have to shoot all As and be about as fast as people shooting Major (they'll likely drop a few points) to be competitive. Unless you have a compelling reason not to (physical limitation etc) Major makes your life much easier.

[Dave Gundry]

Why have the 2 separate points systems? Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Why not go for the KISS principle and let the fastest shooter win? (I do realize it's not just about being fast, accuracy is also needed)

Edited October 4, 2007 by Krautwagen

[Dave Gundry]

It all comes down to math.

I'm one class away from a Math minor - I don't think that'll be a problem Question revolves around the 'why' rather than the 'how'

[1911user]

Success is a balance of speed, accuraccy, and power. Why would anyone shoot a more powerful load if there is no incentive. That incentive is major/minor power factoring. The founders of IPSC were all about serious shooting (not just paper targets) and wanted to encourage the use of more powerful calibers and ammo.

[fatcat]

Some people make the decision to shoot minor because of their equiptment choices and not wanting to exceed those limitations. There are some shooters who use 9mm factory ammo because they don't reload.

[Dave Gundry]

Success is a balance of speed, accuraccy, and power. Why would anyone shoot a more powerful load if there is no incentive. That incentive is major/minor power factoring. The founders of IPSC were all about serious shooting (not just paper targets) and wanted to encourage the use of more powerful calibers and ammo.

Maybe chicken & the egg problem - sounds like the incentive was created before the demand??? I know we're not shooting 22 shorts, but if a off the shelf 9mm isn't considered powerful enough for some, why not bump up the minimum required caliber or cartridge to a more powerful off the shelf load? Seems like major is specifically targeted towards hardcore reloaders, which furthers the need for more equipment, time, up-front costs, and knowledge... which seems to go the opposite direction of 'practical' shooting that anyone can get into.

There are some shooters who use 9mm factory ammo because they don't reload.

Like me

Sorry guys, not trying to argue, just attempting to gain some knowledge from those with the inside scoop.

Thanks for all the comments and help - keep em coming and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

-Dave

Edited October 4, 2007 by Krautwagen

[Loves2Shoot]

Major = Off the shelf .40 or .45

Minor = Off the shelf 9mm

You might want to go to the IPSC.org and do some reading.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Loves2Shoot

[Dave Gundry]

Hmmm, some quick researching shows that most of the off the shelf 40's make Major - so I guess the argument shifts towards 9mm being too common not to accept, but not powerful enough to suit American tastes in out history with autos... which is a big can'o'worms we don't ahve to go into here.

Boils down to shoot 9mm if you want to do it cheap, shoot 40 or greater if you want to be competitive, or reload 40 or greater if you want to be competitive and do it cheap - correct?

[G-ManBart]

Success is a balance of speed, accuraccy, and power. Why would anyone shoot a more powerful load if there is no incentive. That incentive is major/minor power factoring. The founders of IPSC were all about serious shooting (not just paper targets) and wanted to encourage the use of more powerful calibers and ammo.

Maybe chicken & the egg problem - sounds like the incentive was created before the demand??? I know we're not shooting 22 shorts, but if a off the shelf 9mm isn't considered powerful enough for some, why not bump up the minimum required caliber or cartridge to a more powerful off the shelf load? Seems like major is specifically targeted towards hardcore reloaders, which furthers the need for more equipment, time, up-front costs, and knowledge... which seems to go the opposite direction of 'practical' shooting that anyone can get into.

There are some shooters who use 9mm factory ammo because they don't reload.

Like me

Sorry guys, not trying to argue, just attempting to gain some knowledge from those with the inside scoop.

Thanks for all the comments and help - keep em coming and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

-Dave

Dave,

The original thinking was that Major was roughly the equivalent of shooting factory .45acp. That's definitely harder to shoot well than something like a 9mm. So, you're rewarded if you shoot something that's harder to shoot accurately. If you chose to go with something easier to shoot, you have to be more accurate with it. The thinking being that this all related somewhat to real world defensive situations. Drill the target (bad guy) through the center and the effects of Minor/Major would be insignificant. Hit somewhat off center and the Minor round would be noticably less effective.

When the .40 caliber minimum for Major came into being part of the decision was that at least 3 manufacturers had to offer ammo that met that standard. So, it's not really geared towards hardcore reloaders at all. The reason that most of us reload for Major is that you can make Major and do it with less recoild than factory ammo through various combinations of bullet weight and velocity.

If someone isn't interested in reloading and want to KISS, Production division scores everything Minor...you can buy good factory Minor ammo for 9mm and not have to worry about anything but your shooting

[HoMiE]

Take a look at this topic, some background regarding major vs. minor. I think everybody was scored the same until the started to load .38 supers and other 9mm variants up to major power factors. Then guns started to blow up so they said .40 is the minimum caliber to make major in limited, then shortly when better powders became available, the rules allowed allowed 9mm/38s to make major only in open division. My guess is production division is scored minor to allow a level playing field for those who buy factory 9mm ammo to compete.

Click Here - Maj/Min

[Dave Gundry]

Ok - got it, thanks guys

[Alan Meek]

Take a look at this topic, some background regarding major vs. minor. I think everybody was scored the same until the started to load .38 supers and other 9mm variants up to major power factors. Then guns started to blow up so they said .40 is the minimum caliber to make major in limited, then shortly when better powders became available, the rules allowed allowed 9mm/38s to make major only in open division. My guess is production division is scored minor to allow a level playing field for those who buy factory 9mm ammo to compete.

Click Here - Maj/Min

Major/Minor scoring predates loading 38Super/9mm to Major PF.

When the game started and everybody shot 1911's in 45 ACP (remember the founder of our sport Col Jeff Cooper (ret) was a follower of the .45ACP) the gamers started downloading the .45ACP to where you could time the slide cycling with a calendar. Ok not really that slow but pretty close. So Cooper established the Major/Minor PF. Major was based on shooting Military Ball Ammo through a Colt Commander and that was the minimum for Major.

That is how it was explained to me years ago by the Stone Family,

So we can blame Major/Minor on the early gamers

Alan

[scorpiusdeus]

Hmm, this is interesting and I think it addresses the question I came here with. I shoot a Sig Sauer P226ST .40 S&W. I generally shoot in Production, but would I be better off shooting in Limited Ten?

[Loves2Shoot]

Hmm, this is interesting and I think it addresses the question I came here with. I shoot a Sig Sauer P226ST .40 S&W. I generally shoot in Production, but would I be better off shooting in Limited Ten?

That depends if you want to shoot major loads or minor loads

Major, shoot L10

Minor, shoot Production.

[G-ManBart]

Hmm, this is interesting and I think it addresses the question I came here with. I shoot a Sig Sauer P226ST .40 S&W. I generally shoot in Production, but would I be better off shooting in Limited Ten?

If you handload .40 down to minor levels you'll have a good setup for Production. Minor .40 is thought by many to have less recoil than a comparable Minor 9 load (you can shoot a heavier bullet going slower...lower energy). It also give you a larger diameter hole in the target and sometimes you'll pick up the next higher scoring ring...not that you want to shoot anything but A's! If you don't handload, you can buy very good .40 Minor ammo from Atlanta Arms and Ammo as well....very high quality ammo.

A 226 with Major .40 wouldn't be a bad Lim-10 gun either. It's probably at a bit of a disadvantage with a smaller mag opening and depending on who you talk to the double action/single action trigger, but those won't hold you back for a long time, if ever.

Edited October 5, 2007 by G-ManBart

[Guy Neill]

The roots of Major/Minor stem greatly from the study of actual gunfights. It was observed that the farther from the centerline of the body a hit occurred, the less likely the wound would stop the attacker. Larger (read 45/357's) saw the stopping power effect further from the centerline than small bore (read 9mm/38). Major/Minor scoring was (is?) an attempt to recognize the greater stopping power of the larger bullets.

Accuracy was self-evident. Speed was also fairly obvious, so Major/Minor was the means of trying to add Power into the equation, as seen in real life encounters.

Guy

[Steve Moneypenny]

why shoot major.

Simply because you will get more points, more points = higher hit factor. Please don't bring the accuracy debate into this. I've watched shooters of the same skill level do this test. it's not more difficult to shoot major, you ALWAYS get more points.

if debating between production L 10... pick your division and load. if you want Higher over all final results shoot L 10 if your using combined division scores. If you want to find gaps in your grip and be stronger for your produciton shooting in the on season shoot some major in the off season. But bottom line is it really doesn't matter if you shoot production. but if you shoot L 10 or limited you need to shoot major if the gun has that capability.

Happy shooting! If i can help with anything just PM/Email me.

[JFD]

Every single stinking time I try to play with my wife's G35 Limited (minor) gun I shoot 6% - 8% lower points. For me there's nothing positive about shooting minor when major is an option as it's only good for lower points and I can't find any advantage at all. My wife doesn't much care about USPSA domination (I can dream...) and likes the lower recoil, but most people seem to enjoy getting max points.

[G-ManBart]

Every single stinking time I try to play with my wife's G35 Limited (minor) gun I shoot 6% - 8% lower points. For me there's nothing positive about shooting minor when major is an option as it's only good for lower points and I can't find any advantage at all. My wife doesn't much care about USPSA domination (I can dream...) and likes the lower recoil, but most people seem to enjoy getting max points.

It's not painted like hot pink or anything is it?

[Rocket35]

Every single stinking time I try to play with my wife's G35 Limited (minor) gun I shoot 6% - 8% lower points. For me there's nothing positive about shooting minor when major is an option as it's only good for lower points and I can't find any advantage at all. My wife doesn't much care about USPSA domination (I can dream...) and likes the lower recoil, but most people seem to enjoy getting max points.

It's not painted like hot pink or anything is it?

My wife's was....kinda