BDH Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) DISCLAIMERS: First, this thread is in response to a direct request for tips on how we actually made this match work. Second, Deb and I only saw the match from the stage perspective, we never really saw what happened in stats, or other areas of the match (although, I know that doing equipment checks on 900 competitors on Sunday was really special for both the RO's and Competitors ). Third, there were a ton of other things that went on to make this match happen, so thanks to all of those involved. If anyone wants specific info, tag me and I will try to run it down. BACKGROUND: The European Handgun Championships were the largest IPSC match in history (including larger than any World Shoot, according to knowledgable sources). We ran approximately 900 competitors over five days (not including the pre-match). This worked out to twelve squads of fifteen each day with 50 minutes per squad. STAGE EFFICIENCY: Obviously, to run this number of competitors, things had to be clicking along with little to no issues. One of the biggest things that helped was the way that scoresheets and squad info was delivered to us. Basically, I picked up everything in the morning as normal... targets, pasters, etc., to make the stage work... but also, the entire days scoresheets by squad. I wish I would have taken a photo of one of the squad envelopes, but forgot to. Basically, I picked up twelve manilla envelopes in the morning from Stats. Each envelope had the following printed on the outside: Stage NumberSquad NumberCompetitor Last NameCompetitor First NameCompetitor NumberCompetitor CountryCompetitor DivisionCompetitor Category (Lady, Super Senior, etc)Major (or minor)And a box to the left of their name to check whether they were there...In addition, the Competitor info was printed on the outside of the envelope IN SHOOTING ORDER (done by normal IROA shooting order, but it was really awesome that they actually printed the correct shooting order for every stage, as there were no questions)! Inside each envelope were all the scoresheets for that squad, with the competitor stickers already attached, and they were also in the correct shooting order (as per the outside of the envelope). I'm sure that this seems like a small thing, but with a match this large, cutting any extra time out of it helps us move more competitors efficiently... When a squad showed up on the stage, we only had a couple of things to do... Pull out the envelope, and ask the squad if anyone on their squad was not shooting (didn't show up.. DQ'd, etc.)...If no one was missing, pull out the scoresheets (which were already in the correct order). If someone was missing, draw a line thru their name, and pull their scoresheet from the order...Leave the envelope out for everyone to see so there was never a question of the shooting order...Pull the equipment sheets and confirm their equipment...Pull the chrono ammo (first, and seventh squad only)...Once we finished the last competitor of the squad, all scoresheets were once again put in the correct order, inserted back into the envelope, and it was signed and dated by whomever then sealed the envelope. IOW, every squad had every scoresheet show up complete and in order once they were opened by Stats... I gotta tell you, I've worked a handful of large matches and while this system definately takes more from the match organizers upfront, it was a blessing on the stage!!! No more waiting for competitors to bring their stickers forward (or dealing with lost stickers)... no more discussions about whether the squad had an established shooting order... no more questions around 'who is the next shooter' (since the envelope had it plainly printed for all to see). This may seem like I am complaining, but again, I am just trying to point out some small things that made a big match run relatively smoothly... There were some other things that helped us over there, and another one was the scoresheet design. Flex suggested a separate thread so I will start that once I return from the Multi-Gun Nationals... Edited October 4, 2007 by BDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 As a shooter I really liked the envelope system-- I didn't have to mess with any stickers or scoresheets, and the order was plainly printed where we could see it (if you've ever dealt with IROA shooting order, it works but gets confusing if you get out-of-order on stages). Pretty much all our squad had to do was roll up to the stage, tell the RO's who wasn't there and show our equipment sheets. The ROs could check off the sheets and make sure we were all there quickly. It's not a great picture of them, but the famous brown envelope can be seen in this picture: http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-...312531_5448.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 IROA shooting order ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 IROA shooting order ? I've attached an explanation below. IROA_Shooting_Order_Summarised_ex_NB.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 IROA shooting order ? I've attached an explanation below. IROA_Shooting_Order_Summarised_ex_NB.pdf I like this! On some of the matches i've shot this year, we employed a similar process. This, however, is more organized and gives me an idea on how to organize our next sectional match. Thanks for sharing this info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Wow...sounds great. Also sounds like a lot of work on the front end (~21,000 scoresheets). How were they able to keep up with changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 IROA shooting order ? I've attached an explanation below. IROA_Shooting_Order_Summarised_ex_NB.pdf I like this! On some of the matches i've shot this year, we employed a similar process. This, however, is more organized and gives me an idea on how to organize our next sectional match. Thanks for sharing this info! I got my first exposure to the IROA shooting order while working the IPSC qualifer match in michigan this year (I worked with BDH). It didn't work great for us...granted, we were rookies on the system. Plus, we had a few bays with more than one stage in them...which could throw things off. And, ALL the stages would need to follow the system to a letter for it to work. That didn't happen. The biggest draw back that I found was that it is predicated on an accurate and up-to-date squad list. I've worked major matches that didn't have squad lists...that had lists that we inaccurate...that had lists that were not current. Plus, our squad lists...as printed out of EZ...don't leave much extra room for corrections and writting in shooters. Lets say you do get a good squad list. You still have to go down through it, then...by name...sort the sheets. I picked up on what I think is a better way (I think I got it from one of the many squads I ran this year). It is to simply run the shooting order by shooter number. There is no need to grab a squad list. No need to work your way through an alphabetical list (which doesn't sound hard, but shooter # is way easier). Since the shooter number is on the sticker...you have all the info right there. If you get a no-show, DQ or addition to a squad...everybody has a unique shooter number, so no big deal. All you need to know is who went first on the last stage, then it's just a quick shuffle. I should have made it mandatory at the Level III match I ran this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I picked up on what I think is a better way (I think I got it from one of the many squads I ran this year). It is to simply run the shooting order by shooter number. Welcome to my way of compiling the shooting order ... I've been doing this for about 4 or 5 years (I'm usually the squad mummy when I shoot), and I also proposed it when the IROA order was discussed on the GV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I have a question about this process. What happenned if a shooter DQ'd? Did the RM or Stats personnel have to go to each and every stage and pull that persons remaining scoresheets and update all the squadlists? What about no-shows, etc...did that add any confusion? It seems to me that shifting-on-the-fly might be a little more difficult if there was a snafu of any kind that changed the order mid-stream (for no-shows, DQ's or other reasons). Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted October 8, 2007 Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 I have a question about this process. What happenned if a shooter DQ'd? Did the RM or Stats personnel have to go to each and every stage and pull that persons remaining scoresheets and update all the squadlists? What about no-shows, etc...did that add any confusion? It seems to me that shifting-on-the-fly might be a little more difficult if there was a snafu of any kind that changed the order mid-stream (for no-shows, DQ's or other reasons). Just curious... Jeff, we asked e wereif the squad had someone missing (for whatever reason), we drew aline through their name on the envelope and pulled their scoresheet out of the order. Once we finished the squad, the unused scoresheet went back into the envelope with the rest of them. That made it perfectly clear that the competitor in quesdtion did not shoot the COF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 (edited) I picked up on what I think is a better way (I think I got it from one of the many squads I ran this year). It is to simply run the shooting order by shooter number. We've been doing this allot lately at majors. It helps avoid allot (not all) of the confusion, and most of the complaining about who shoots first / and who follows who in the shooting order. I like this process. It seems that if USPSA set this into stone (I know ... I hate the idea of more rules too) it would help things run faster and more efficiently. Edited October 8, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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