1911 as a ...

[Ron Ankeny]

Yeah, I know, this forum is for competiton shooting and not for arm chair commmando fantasies. Still, some of us do pack a pistol around once in a while and I have some questions about the 1911 as a carry gun. If one the the moderators feels the post is inappropriate I'll understand if it is deleted.

Here goes. I just love shooting a single stack. But I use an extremely high grip and the darn "memory bump" on the safety ends up in the hollow of my palm. In short, I can't get the grip safety depressed so I need to deactivate the thing. I don't want to carry a gun with a pinned safety so I carry a safe action type pistol or a dbl action type auto. Is there a decent solution to getting the safety depressed without fail every time. I am open to suggestions.

The next question is about weight. A standard 1911 is a bit hefty so I am thinking about getting a pistol made up on a lightweight Commander frame. I know a little about aluminum vs. steel, but I am just plain ignorant about the new titanium frames. Does anyone know anything about the Caspian titanium frames? Are they any good and how do you finish one of the things?

Next item of business. I am getting arthritis in my hands and I am developing a hatred toward recoil. So, if I go to a light pistol in a Commander length, I think I'll get a 9mm bore diameter. I am leaning real hard towards the good old .38 Super but I suppose there could be other choices. Choice of caliber would be???

Last item; ambi safety or one side? When I shoot left hand I tend to bump the safety up if I don't ride the ambi side. Does that make sense? I have been told that and ambi safety is prone to becoming disengaged when carried concealed. Your thoughts?

In a nutshell, would a .38 Super in Commander length on a titanium frame be cool or what?

[Flexmoney]

Ron,

On the 1911forum, Gary from Caspian often can be seen in the Caspian section:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=48

He recommends the titanium framed guns for carry.  (There aren't a bunch of post there...I am sure you can find all that apply in short order)  I think he even has a fitted frame and slide on special on his website right now (not sure of caliber of breech).

38 Super (or Super Comp or 9x23) would work as an effective defense round (IMO).  Which are you shooting in your Open gun?  (...and would be able to easily reload for to practice.)

On the grip safety, the inside tab that engages the trigger bar...it can be adjusted with a careful file so that it disengages with very little forward movement (or it can be disengaged completely).

[Ron Ankeny]

Flexmoney:

I am shooting .38 Super in my open blaster. That's why I am considering a carry gun in the same caliber. Once again, I am ignorant on pressures though. What happens if I shoot a comp load (say a 115 at 170 pf) in a non-comped pistol. Will the pressures be too extreme?

[TMC]

The pressure in the chamber is the same regardless of weather the gun has a comp or not so the pressure is not the issue.  The difference will be in the stiffer recoil of an uncomped 170fp super.  Most loads that make 165 fp major are not as hot as the factory Winchester  9x23 which pushed 125's at 1400+ if I'm not mistaken.

If your going that route make sure you use a supported chamber barrel like your open gun.  If not make sure you only use Win. 9x23 cases which were made for an unsupported chamber.

A single stack 9x23/Super is a great gun. 11 rounds, light, thin, and if you want you can fit a 9mm barrel for cheap practice or IDPA.

(Edited by TMC at 9:02 pm on Oct. 8, 2002)

[Flexmoney]

TMC has it.

Your Open gun runs with a slow burning powder (to make the comps work).  But, just like your Limited gun, you would want a faster powder to ease the recoil.

Supported Barrel and/or 9x23(one of the strongest brasses around, by most reports).

Read more about the 9x23 here:

http://www.burnscustom.com/9x23.html

You can have the chamber cut to let you shoot a variety of the Super family...

The IDPA guys that shoot ESP will likely chime in here...of course, they aren't running at Major.  

[eerw]

Ron..

As it has been said...Gary Smith from Caspian is a moderator at the 1911forum and answers fairly quickly and questions about Caspian stuff...nobody has stated any major problems with the Ti frames except it is a hard material and difficult to machine...but it does combo lightwieght with toughness...several have been built...I think George Smith, Ted Yost and a few others have Ti guns out there and you might get some response from 1911forum and pistolsmith forum on the longevity of the frames..

so a carry gun using an OM Ti frame with a commander length slide in 9x23 would be very cool..Metalform catalogs a magazine for 38super/9x23 for the OM frame now..and they are very good quality...carry loads are fairly limited..right now you would have a silvertip in either 38 super or 9x23, a soft point in 9x23 and a couple of corbon loadings in 38 super..there is some talk at ammolab.com of doing a limited run from black hills using a gold dot bullet..

Another good platform to work with would be Springfield's ultracompact in 9mm..have the barrel reamed out to super or 9x23 and good to go..Heinie shows one of these on his website that is pretty trick.

anyway..a commander as you describe or a OM/commander in Ti and steel would be very cool...in 9x23..(124grn @1450 to 1520 factory loading). Right now, I have carry gun on a SPringfield in 9x23..it works really well..using the WIN silvertip load..using shooting start or Wilson 10 round mags..

grip safety...you can tweak the GS to disengage with minimal movement...it just takes a bunch a work at the bench with a file to file a little, put gun back together to get it done..I have all my guns adjusted this way..

(Edited by eerw at 3:21 am on Oct. 9, 2002)

[Steve Anderson]

The gun you're describing will not be FUN to shoot, so I'd second the 9mm barrel for practice.

SA

[tightloop]

You have a lot of things going on simultaneously.  You and I have a lot of the same things happening.  Big hands, arthritis, love of singlestack 1911s etc.  I did just what you are thinking of doing.  Built light weight, aluminum frame, '70 Series Commander in 9mm, for a carry gun.  

I chose 9mm cause practice ammo is cheap, and there is some pretty good defense stuff avaliable on the market.  Mine is tricked out with Brown ambi, which is pinned cause I have always pinned them (I know this violates one of your concerns) but ...  If I was going to do it again, I would do it in 38Super cause you can use Wilson mags and never look back.

I love mine.  Dehorned Bomars, BarSto bbl, swaged mag well, 30 lpi on frontstrap and trigger guard and MS housing, all the good stuff inside and Black T by Birdsong on the outside.  No I don't have any problems with sweeping off the safety accidently.  Either Triton or Corbon 115 at 1375 should do the trick.

[Ron Ankeny]

Thanks guys. I think I am going to go for it. That 1911 forum is pretty cool, I need to get over there from time to time. I see we have several BE regulars who also post on the 1911 Forum. I just discovered pistolsmith.com and it is a good souce too.

The idea of reaming out a 9mm to .38 Super is interesting. Is it really that simple?

[Patrick Sweeney]

I would agree with getting a 9mm barrel fitted for cheap practice and low recoil/noise.  I wouldn't worry about a ramped barrel, as the factory Super works fine in unramped stock Colt guns.  I would not consider Open Major ammo as a suitable practice load.  The slower powder would increase noise and felt recoil.

As for the safeties:  On the grip safety, have the tab adjusted for the earliest possible release, while still acting as a grip safety for drop security.  Have the speed bump welded higher to engage your hand sooner and more positively.  Have the off side of the ambi safety dressed down until it clears your knuckle (I have the same problem) but still works as an ambi safety.

For a finish, get a spray-on epoxy finish to cover the nasty titanium color.

And yes, it won't be fun to shoot with real Super ammo, but if fun was the #1 factor, you'd be making this thing in .22LR, right?

[bountyhunter]

"I am getting arthritis in my hands and I am developing a hatred toward recoil. So, if I go to a light pistol in a Commander length, I think I'll get a 9mm bore diameter. I am leaning real hard towards the good old .38 Super but I suppose there could be other choices."

I've got arthritis in both wrists, elbows and shoulders also.  I shoot 9mm a lot and also .40SW.  I find .40SW to give a lot of hit for a tolerable recoil.  I have never liked the .38S (especially loaded up to major).  It has the bark of a .357 and a real nasty kick to boot.  I have found the .40SW (180 gr) in a full sized 1911 to be very tame.

Another plus on .40SW is that you can get reload FMJ ammo for $120/case from Home Ammo Direct so I can shoot all I want.

http://www.ammodirect.com/

[Flexmoney]

Hey Ron...how 'bout a 10mm???

That might fit your environment just a bit better.

[Ron Ankeny]

Flex:

I have been carrying the new 3 million heat unit bear spray when I travel the grizzly bear management units. That and a 629 Smith. I had a Delta Elite in 10mm and I thought it a bit too abusive. I am a wimp.

I have been on the phone with several of the top line pistolsmiths around the country and as one would expect, they all recommend a full size pistol in .45 auto. Maybe I'll just send my old Baer Premier II in for some hard chrome and Novak sights.

[Flexmoney]

45?  That is pretty narrow-minded of them.  

[titandriver]

  Hey Ron --- you might consider the Glock 20. I had a Colt Delta Elite also and it was indeed abusive! Switched to a Glock 20 and it is probably ten times *less* abusive than the Delta Elite! And far less finicky!

 I also used this Glock to get a GM card in Limited before returning it to carry duty in the wilds of central Idaho. Holds sixteen plus one of *near* equivalent factory .44 ammo as an added bonus.

[Mark Perez]

I got a chance to shoot a couple of rounds through this gun  http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread...;threadid=23865

it was in 45 and didn't feel any different from my reguglar 199a1 commander as far as recoil goes.

[sfinney]

I used to have a pre series 70 factory stock Colt LW Commander in 9mm, with a second barrel in .38 Super. The gun was one of the best shooting, best handling carry guns I've ever had. Unfortuneatly, I convinced myself I needed a .45 and sold it @ 5 years ago.

I've regretted it ever since.

I'm currently looking for a replacement -  maybe this time I'll put on a set of Novak nightsights, and a beaver tail, and a trigger job.... but other than that, I'll keep it stock. And probably JUST 9mm. There are 9mm defense rounds out there that are about as good (or better) as most factory .38 Super loads.

As cool as Titanium sounds, don't rule out an alloy frame commander (notice I said alloy, not aluminum - the Colt frames  are actually pretty hard alloy, and especially in 9mm you probably won't see significant wear).

Also, I tend to lean toward "factory" available guns and ammo for carry purposes, for both cost and liability issues.

[dirtypool40]

Ron,

I started with what I carried and went through the police academy with, a Sig 226.  When I came to my senses about being a cop, and then tried a 1911, I decided that since no one was going to get to decide FOR ME what to carry, I would carry what I shot the best, a 1911.

Having gone through several machinations, I now carry all 1911's, same as I compete in USPSA Limited class with (there's a "train like you fight" in there somewhere for the gunrag commandos).  A Kimber LW compact in .45acp is what I usually have, tweaked a little by a competent gunplumber.  Yes, it still has a 5# trigger, but also a well fit ambi, LW guide rod, a tritium front site, new grips and some checkering for panache.   Cover it all in Black-T and it's understated but good to go.    I also love a LW commander (COlt's new xse looks promising) and HAD an ultra cool .40 STI carry gun that had to go during lean times.  

Your idea of a .38 Super in Commander sizing seems pretty cool, hot to carry, 10 rounds, light and you can practice or shoot IDPA with the lighter 125pf stuff to keep from aggrivating your arthritus.

Grip Safety:  I had the same problem with my first high cap, I was using an arched mainspring.  Switching to a flat made all the difference.  Try that.

Ambi or single side: People are devided on this. I am pro ambi.  Among other things, I carry IWB under an untucked golf shirt.  With an ambi I can just touch outside the shirt, feel the lever and KNOW the gun is on safe and ok.  If you go single side only you lose that option and the emergency option of "reach around the back" weak hand draw.  And No, (for the armchair commandos) I have not once bumped into something and knocked the gun off safe.  If I hit something that hard, I'm pretty sure I'll know it.

I don't know of anyone who makes a .38 Super commander.  If you are going to have one built, Ti has all kinds of cool factor. Caspian is a good bunch of people, but I have been cautioned about their cast alloy frames.  Ti should be the ticket if they are really available.

Let me know how it turns out. DVC

[Ron Ankeny]

Boy have I ever gotten an education on the new Caspian Titanium frame. It is a pure titanium casting. The frame weighs 7.3 ounces compared to 11.9 ounces for their standard frame and 12.2 ounces for the Caspian frame with the integral magazine well. The Caspian aluminum frame weighs in at 4.6 ounces.

I have decided not to go with the titanium frame because of slide to frame fit issues. I am really anal when it comes to slide to frame fit. I like a tight, smooth working slide. The titanium frames are not lapped in. On the contrary, they are fit quite loosely on purpose to avoid galling. I just don't think I can pop a couple of grand for a carry/IPDA pistol that rattles like a bucket of bolts, no matter how functional it is.

I am going full size because there is only 3 ounces difference in the weight of a Commaner sized frame and barrel versus a full size frame and barrel.

I went full circle and came right back to a standard configuration. Go figure...

(Edited by Ron Ankeny at 2:42 pm on Oct. 17, 2002)

[EricW]

"I don't know of anyone who makes a .38 Super commander...."

Uhhh, Colt perhaps?  My buddy has one in his safe and I believe it's for sale.  Shoots great.

E

[eerw]

Ron..

Don't think you can go wrong with your choice..For my occasional carry needs..I use a SA 9x23...pretty much the same as your choice...given if you carry a lot...a lighter version might be needed..but only time will tell on that..

I am quite happy carrying a full size steel gun

[MBneACP]

You know, if we all cried and whined to Kimber, we could probably talk them into at least a limited run of .38 Super PRO CARRY models with an aluminum frame. Their PRO CRRY HD II is available in .38 Super with a steel frame.

BTW, we've been shooting the crap out of the new Kimber Olympic commemorative .45 at the NSSF Media Seminars, and everybody likes it a lot. Haven't managed to break it, either.