shaughn leayme Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 This question occured to me in relation to watching people at the local range, during dry fire and live fire. Some have the safety flicked off with the pistol on the upward swing (6 - 10 inches from the holster) others at 45 degrees, almost level and others when the pistol is aimed at the target. Is there a consensus on where exactly the safety goes off ? or is it subjective, for example: as long as it's done in a safe manner. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
day5creations Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I'm new to IPSC, but afer watching Matt Burketts DVD's and changing my grip to start with the thumb on the safety, I find it real easy to flick it off sooner than I use to. Before changing grips (not sure if I'll stick with it) I would pull from the holster with the thumb under the safety and have to make a motion up and down to disengage. Seemed safer but slower. Having the thumb on it causes me to keep a relaxed grip on the draw because if I "tighten down", the safety gets squeezed off. In the end I like Matt's method, but have not worked on it enough to be 100% comfortable that I will not sweep the safety off early (in the 45deg area) as opposed to where I like it to come off, in the "pushing out" part of my presentation. Clear as mud? For me the safety goes off as gun goes out toward target and before sight picture is obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRM Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I'll bet if the "Truth be known", most people probably take the safety off as soon as they grab the gun I’ve seen numerous AD’s (a couple by GM’s) as a result of this VERY BAD, EVIL HABIT!! In FIST-FIRE we teach you to keep your thumb UP on the draw to avoid disengaging the thumb safety prematurely. You can still C-Clamp the gun on the front and back strap with the fingers in front and the lower portion of the thumb (where it connects to the hand) in the back. When both hands come together around the gun, THEN the safety comes off and the trigger finger goes in. While this is way too slow for most people, it is safer, in my opinion... Stay safe, D.R. Middlebrooks – Director Tactical Shooting Academy (TSA) http://www.TacticalShooting.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 It's only bad and evil if your finger is on the trigger. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I totally agree with DRM, there is absolutely no speed advantage to getting the safety off earlier. But a whole lot can go wrong. In all my matches over the years, I have had a few early shots go off,l each caught me by surprise. But because I don't take the safety off til the gun is almost at full extention (last 3- 4" )I have always either hit the target with a poor shot, or been within inches of the target, never in an unsafe direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Not trying to stir anything up here, but does that mean you've already got pressure on the trigger and the safety is keeping the gun from firing? Maybe I'm just used to my Berettas (no safety, decocker only) but for me the 1911 safety comes off as soon as get the proper grip is achieved. That to me is a design feature that is good. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I agree with SA. My safety comes off when I grab the gun but the finger stayes off the trigger until the gun is on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I am with Pat and DRM. In fact, the two fastest shooters that I have ever seen take the safety off and put their finger in the trigger guard during the last part of the extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRM Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 There is something called a "fist-reflex" that should be of concern... What that means is that when the hand makes a "fist", the natural tendency is to squeeze with the fingers. When the thumb presses down the fingers tighten up. We find if the thumb is "UP" and trigger finger "straight" it is safer, especially for new shooters who are trying to race the clock. "I've seen three world champion shooters have AD's in matches. I have since concluded that there are two types of shooters in the world: Those who have had an accidental discharge and candidates." - D.R. Middlebrooks http://www.TacticalShooting.com (Edited by DRM at 11:49 am on Feb. 9, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Quote: from Steve Anderson on 6:39 am on Feb. 9, 2003 Not trying to stir anything up here, but does that mean you've already got pressure on the trigger and the safety is keeping the gun from firing? SA No, It means I got the safety off in the last 3-4" of travel, then got on the trigger but broke the shot before getting to full mount. More or less it is just poorly aimed at that point, but index could put it on target DRM makes a good point about the fist reflex, I remember reviewing video of Jerry Barnhart at the US nationals, when he brought the gun back off mount (ie to move) he would relax his hand, the finger came out or the trigger guard and his thumb would go up, then as he remounted the gun, the thumb came down (helps to avoid problems if you accidentally apply the safety) sweeping down on the safety and the finger went back to the trigger. It was very obvious if you watched for it, relax as movement starts and hand opens, extend and grip, hand closes sweeping safety and finger goes to trigger. A very natural act, however if you tighten the grip and sweep the safety as it comes out of the holster, you could get a nasty surprise. As I said before, there is absolutely no speed advantage taking it off early, so why risk it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Hmmm - I have NO conscious thought of the safety... no clue that it's even there - I wonder just when I DO take it down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 My safety comes off after the gun has come into view during the draw, but before I have acquired the sights...I'm probably shifting my focus from target to sights as it happens, and my finger hasn't yet gone into the trigger guard. I agree with the safety advocates--there is no advantage to getting the safety off sooner. It should not be disengaged until the gun is pointed in a safe direction at least (downrange at 45 degrees or more, if I had to draw an arbitrary line). The problem I seem to have is that after a reload, my thumb doesn't seem to return to the top of the safety, and I'll sometimes knock the safety back on during recoil. Gotta fix that! Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I lied. I took notice of when the safety comes off during some dry fire exercises this morning. I take the safety off just below chest level when my hands come together. I tried taking the safety off during the last part of the extension but it didn't seem to work very well for me. For fun, I reviewed tapes of the Burner, Avery, Leatham, Enos, and Burkett. Seems like the faster these guys go the more they "round things off" like the extension, etc. One thing most of them have in common is when the safety is disengaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Ditto Thumb up for me until I have mounted the gun with the weak hand also (chest high) That keeps the thumb out of the way for a good solid mount. The safety comes off about 1/4 to 1/2 of arm extension, finger goes into the trigger at about the same time. It happens so fast in real time you can't even see it, but if you break down all your motions into slow motion, I think you teach your body what to do right when you speed it up. Speed rounds things off naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Safety off as I am lifting the pistol clear of the holster, finger in the trigger guard as the weak hand joins the pistol( which is after the muzzle is going toward the target, between belt and chest high). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Thumb on the safety lever as I acquire the grip in the holster, but the safety doesn't come off until my hands meet around sternum level and about a foot in front of my body. The gun is up and aimed in the direction of the target. At about this point the index finger enters the trigger guard. It's important to note the index finger doesn't contact the trigger until after the gun is up and aimed in a safe direction, and the safety is off. The finger doesn't really contact the trigger until the last maybe 1/4 of the forward push out. In reality, if I don't disengage the safety until my hands meet, and the trigger finger doesn't start to enter the guard until the safety comes off and the gun is going forward, I CAN'T break the shot before the gun is aligned (ideally) on the center of the A-zone. It all works out rather neatly. And purty darn fast, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I use to have a bad habit of disengaging the safety as the gun started to leave the holster, until one night at a plate match an adjustment screw on my holster backed out and wouldn't let the gun release. When tried to pull the gun free it rebounded in the holster and fired the gun. The bullet went into the concrete floor about an inch from my right foot. I now disengage the safety at chest hight as I'm starting to index the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Now thats Scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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