Ruger not wanting their guns shot in Comp

[Tom E]

With the alloy/heat treat S&W uses for their SS fasteners, a torx head screw would leave you begging them to go back to slotted. Be thankful for blue loctite.

[revchuck]

iainmcphersn makes a VERY GOOD point...check w/Clark Custom and David Clements about "Take-Offs"...I once purchased a "Take-Off" 686 cylinder from Clements...never DID find out what the NEW cylinder was for...I was AFRAID to ask!!!....mikey357

Mikey - I think Clements does caliber conversions, like making a 686 into a five shot .41 Mag or .44 Special.

Another person to check with for take-off barrels is Ron Power. My sole "cool gunsmithing" story is when I bought a S&W M67 sight unseen, and the barrel was bulged. The FFL guy I used wouldn't send it back. I called around and Power had a barrel for it (a take-off from a gun he had built for PPC). I sent the gun to Alex Hamilton (10 Ring Precision), Power sent the barrel straight to Alex as well, and I had the gun back in eight days, including shipping. Three clicks in windage and it was zeroed. It was my IDPA gun for six years, and is still going strong.

[JFlowers]

It has been Ruger's policy for quite some time that no gun leaves them unless it is in factory condition. This drives the SASS shooter's crazy, but they found a way around it. You take the custom parts (springs, pawls, etc) out and replace them with the originals then send the gun in for factory work ..

Like was mentioned earlier, its a liability issue. Ever noticed how overbuilt Ruger handguns are? But it might be getting worse, I saw recently were someone won a lawsuit against Freedon Arms (maker of the big 454 revolver) because the single action army design was defective due to it working exactly as designed. You would think a 150 year old design would have all the bugs worked out of it.

[Waltermitty]

With the alloy/heat treat S&W uses for their SS fasteners, a torx head screw would leave you begging them to go back to slotted. Be thankful for blue loctite.

I'll save my gratitude for that individual (3rd party vendor?) that comes up with the solution. Maybe they can recycle the parts S&W designed to lock up the gun so it won't fire? Then I can break the gun down with the key that came with the kit.

What other gun type/brand has to be glued together with thread locker so it won't come apart during a two day/300 round match?

I'm still underwhelmed.

[pskys2]

Seriously guys, put a little blue loctite on every single screw on a S&W revolver, tighten everything down nice 'n' tight, and you will never have a problem. Don't take the gun apart unless you really need to (i.e. only very rarely), but if you do, loctite every single screw again when you put it back together. It's really that simple.

C'mon Mike where's the fun in that? I take off the sideplate just to marvel at my Randyized Hammer!

Seriously be very careful with the loc tite. It MUST BE BLUE, or you will be in deep do do. And too much can gum up your action or worse yet flow into the plunger of the screw you most worry about and cause problems.

But, I'm a bit picky about things too. I like my moon clips to all face one way!

BTW has anybody ran into a worn plunger on that screw? I noticed my crane was pushing forward a bit more than usual, got a new screw and it's back to normal. I noticed a lot of play in that old screw, so now it's a spare (course the new one looks better, as the slot isn't near as chewed up from my constant disassembly and gawking).

My suggestion is to sell that worthless Ruger and buy yourself some 'Smith's. If you "really" need the money just let me know, . I got a C Note I'd trade you for it.

[Carmoney]

My sole "cool gunsmithing" story is when I bought a S&W M67 sight unseen, and the barrel was bulged.

That reminds me of the 5" M27 I used to own. I bought it knowing it had an obviously bulged barrel, figuring it was cheap enough (I think I paid $125 or 150) I could rebarrel it and still be OK. However, I soon discovered it shot fine even with the bulge, and I used it for several years as a back-up to my Baumannized bowling pin gun. Later on, I sold the 5" back to the same guy I bought it from...I think he keeps it in his glove box.

[Paul Santiago]

You take the custom parts (springs, pawls, etc) out and replace them with the originals then send the gun in for factory work ..

Little off topic, but this is especially true for the owners of Ruger old model blackhawks that don't want the new transfer bar conversion installed. Most will not send the OM's back for any work since they will be converted and the receiver stamped.

excuse the drift...

[Carmoney]

C'mon Mike where's the fun in that? I take off the sideplate just to marvel at my Randyized Hammer!

So Dave, you're saying it just makes you feel good to look at your hammer?

I guess I do understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9iiU6NDxIo...ated&search

[slflr]

C'mon Mike where's the fun in that? I take off the sideplate just to marvel at my Randyized Hammer!

So Dave, you're saying it just makes you feel good to look at your hammer?

I guess I do understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9iiU6NDxIo...ated&search

Mike,

You have entirely too much time on your hands.

[revchuck]

C'mon Mike where's the fun in that? I take off the sideplate just to marvel at my Randyized Hammer!

So Dave, you're saying it just makes you feel good to look at your hammer?

I guess I do understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9iiU6NDxIo...ated&search

Mike,

You have entirely too much time on your hands.

He just considers himself one of our more gifted members...yeah, I guess that's an appropriate choice of words...

[pskys2]

I just love to throw up little quips and watch the funnies roll in.

[Double Action]

Back to the original question, just buy another Ruger. The guns are so much more reasonably priced than Smiths to start with, that it is not really cost-effective to buy a new barrel. Keep the 3 incher (I love mine, too), and pick up a 4 or 6 incher to use at matches. That way, you can still compete in the snubby division if you want. For real style points, keep your eyes open for one of the 5 inch guns that come up for sale occasionally.

It's not that Ruger doesn't want their guns used in competition, it's just that they aren't willing to take the liability risk of putting a competition gun out in public. That may change with Michael Fifer at the helm, anyway. I was fortunate enough to have dinner with him at the range the other night, and he certainly seemed receptive to my request for a .38 super, 9 or .40 cal moon gun.

It really isn't fair to say that you won't buy a Ruger because of its position on the AWB, when Smith signed off on Clinton's "deal," and Ruger didn't. That was a long time ago, and BOTH companies are under different leadership. I've been using my Rugers in ICORE and USPSA pretty regularly for a while now, and even managed to make B class with speedloaders and minor PF. They are cheap enough that my boys and I can all have one plus a backup, whereas my 627 required a second mortgage before I started even thinking about the action, and my 625 from the "Performance Center" still won't shoot worth a damn. My sons' triggers are WELL under 10 lbs, and there has never been a grip invented that can compete with a GP100 for comfort.

For just over 5 bills, you can get a new Ruger AND have the cylinder cut for moon clips. When/if the 686 SSR ever makes it to market in any numbers, the price is going to be more than that, and it's still going to just have a 4" barrel. There just isn't much of an economically sound reason to rebarrel a GP100. If you're finished with your 3 incher, there are plenty of folks that will buy it from you. Then, to the money you were going to spend on a new barrel and installation, you can add the sales price and buy a new one and have the cylinder machined.

[ffl]

C'mon Mike where's the fun in that? I take off the sideplate just to marvel at my Randyized Hammer!

So Dave, you're saying it just makes you feel good to look at your hammer?

I guess I do understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9iiU6NDxIo...ated&search

Mike,

You have entirely too much time on your hands.

He just considers himself one of our more gifted members...yeah, I guess that's an appropriate choice of words...

I am real supprised that Cliff didn't post that video link

[AzShooter]

Try sending a Smith back to the factory with all the nice changes we've made lately and they will replace the parts with stock parts unless you ask them before sending it in to keep the action, ect the way it is. More than once I've gotten back a basic stock gun and had to rework the innards myself or have my gunsmith do it.

It's the same reason trigger pulls from the factory are so heavy. Product reliability. It's not the competion shooters can't handle it but the general public could get in trouble with a 5 lb double action pull.

[David Sinko]

I am arriving at the final chapter of my own Ruger parts nightmare. My Bowen Redhawk Alpine Conversion has been out of service for nine months now. As most of you know by now, Ruger refuses to sell barrels, cylinders, hammers, triggers, hands or cylinder stops to ANYBODY. That includes Hamilton Bowen, who builds some of the best Ruger revolvers the world has ever seen. In my case, the gun was shot out of time. Hamilton told me it's the first one he has seen that has been worn out from extensive DA shooting and NOT heavy loads. I have a hard time understanding this, since why would anybody buy a DA revolver just to shoot it single action? Anyway, the gun was out of time and produced firing pin hits on the edge of the primer when fired DA very slowly. The response from Ruger was the same as above - the gun will be returned with all factory parts. Really now, the only major part of that gun that has not been modified is the frame! Well, Mr. Bowen determined that due to how the gun "wore in" it needed a new hammer and trigger. Nine months later he was finally able to get the parts. He says the gun will now fire double action with CCI Magnum primers and I should get it back in two weeks after he's sure there are no more problems. What to do about this? As I see it, the best solution is to have a second gun which can be cannibalized for the new "factory replacement only" parts and then the factory spec gun with the broken parts can be returned to Ruger. Yeah, it can be expensive and troublesome but I do not see any other way. Redhawks are nowhere near as popular as the Blackhawks and there are no third party vendors who make parts for them. Those of you who want or have custom Ruger DA revolvers need to be aware of this!

Dave Sinko

[Carmoney]

I would think Hamilton Bowen would be capable of making the necessary parts to retime a Ruger.

I also can't see why the hammer and trigger would need replacing. I've never heard of such a thing.

Ruger has always made some interesting products. But they have also always had that "we know better than the unwashed masses" attitude. The Old Man was a great gun designer, but his legacy will always be marred by his arrogance, elitism, and ill-concealed contempt for his own market pool.

So I say piss on 'em. What have they ever done for us?

Edited June 28, 2007 by Carmoney

[Carlos]

I would think Hamilton Bowen would be capable of making the necessary parts to retime a Ruger.

I also can't see why the hammer and trigger would need replacing. I've never heard of such a thing.

Ruger has always made some interesting products. But they have also always had that "we know better than the unwashed masses" attitude. The Old Man was a great gun designer, but his legacy will always be marred by his arroganc, elitism, and ill-concealed contempt for his own market pool.

So I say piss on 'em. What have they ever done for us?

Just look at the link on the bottom of my post. Let the old man's words (congressional testimony actually) speak for themselves. He hated motorcycles too. True, now he's dead. But, unlike S&W, there does not seem to be any deviation from his philosophy (i.e. - the only 30 round factory Ruger mini-14 mags you can buy are those that come through LEO distributors who Ruger sells to with the policy that the mags not be sold to the public. However, the mags are legal and the distributors sell them to us anyway. Try ordering a 30 rounder right from Ruger. Good luck.). Their "no parts for you!" policy is not too friendly either.

Do I hope they will change? Of course.

BTW, to be fair, the stock products are OK. I once owned a Redhawk .44 Mag and it was both reliable and accurate while I owned it.

[David Sinko]

Carmoney,

I tend to agree with everything you say. I don't know anything about re-timing S&W or Ruger revolvers so I am left to the mercy of those who do. Bowen's finished product is beyond reproach and when I got the gun from him (it was actually made to my exact specifications in new, unfired condition) it functioned perfectly. Interestingly, I ordered a bobbed hammer and he told me I was the first to do so. He was reluctant to do the modification, believing it would compromise ignition. He did it anyway, and the gun did function perfectly shooting DA with Winchester primers. Obviously the spurless hammer was not an issue. When the gun went out of time I returned it to him and he was concerned that the spurless hammer is contributing to the problem. I advised him that the gun functioned perfectly when I got it from him the first time meaning that the spurless hammer was not part of the problem, but he persisted in this belief. I then told him that many competitive shooters can prove that the spurless hammer will not effect ignition, and he then said that he does not have much experience in the matter. He said he will NOT remove my hammer spur this time, and if I want I will have to do it myself, which really will not be a problem. He also refused to groove my new trigger, saying he does not have the "proper" tools for the job, so once again I will have to do that myself with the Dremel. So to get back to the original question, does one need to replace the hammer and trigger to re-time a Redhawk? I don't know. Can Bowen make the necessary parts to do the job? I believe so, but his time costs a lot of money. In the end, the Redhawk does have a lot going for it but the parts problem is really ridiculous. I do not like Ruger's attitude and I will probably not buy any more of their guns. In fact, I am not buying any more revolvers these days and I now shoot Glocks almost exclusively in competition. My Redhawk, 625 and SP101 all have very important roles but lately competition is NOT one of those roles. The Redhawk and 625 are custom guns and servicing them is proving to be a tremendous burden. I fear more and more revolver shooters will encounter these problems in the future as the pool of good revolvers and those who know how to service them dry up.

Dave Sinko