Why do all these hi-cap ltd guns jam?

[DogmaDog]

Hey all,

I've been getting more involved in USPSA (no IDPA available near New Orleans), and having lots of fun at some local clubs.  Yesterday, one guy I shot with was offering a used limited gun for sale, at what sounded like a pretty good price.  

During the match, though, I just saw lots of limited and open shooters doing immediate action with their pistols.  They had problems with failures to feed, and magazine problems, and all sorts of stupid problems.

What's the deal?  Why are these guns so unreliable, and what does one do to make them run 100%?  

I'd like to get one, some day, because they are pretty sexy when they work, but I don't want to have to retain a full-time gunsmith just to ensure I can get through a whole match without jamming the thing.

Thanks,

DogmaDog

[Detlef]

this is a permanent thread here. Go and search a bit... You'll find three dominant culprits mentioned: i) bad ammo  ii) improperly/un- tuned high-cap mags and iii) shok buffs in use. They are kind of related anyway... And with none of them would a full-time gunsmith be of much help...

--Detlef

[EricW]

My Limited STI runs flawlessly.  Don't ask me what everyone else is doing/not doing, but my one jam has been to bad ammo.  That's it.  I don't even clean my mags regularly.

[knocks on wood]

I have to wonder if mankind's urge to fix something that isn't broken isn't a frequent culprit.

[IPSC CHIK1]

my Para Ordnance p 14 running factory mags has yet to fail me.  perhaps some people tinker too much.

Sharon Anne L 2387

[Detlef]

how many .45 rounds do you fit in the P14 mags?

--D

[Flexmoney]

D,

They run with 18 in the mag, with Dawson pads (and Gramms too, I think).  I'm not sure if you can run 18 +1.  Eighteen ought to be enough to get a shooter thru two arrays before a reload though.

There are quite a few of our local shooters that run with P14's.  Of course, a number of them have been tuned by Joe Bonar and the folks at Novak's.

[Detlef]

Flex, the question was how many does Sharon put in her mags. The factory p14 mags are 15rd, and they never fail on me, but if you put on Grams or dawson extended pads, that's when the trouble all starts. If she has that and it never fails: CONGRATULATIONS! But that's more the exception than the rule...

D

[IPSC CHIK1]

Detef

for my Para P 14 i run strictly Para factory mags with factory extended pads which gets me 14 in the mag. at the 2000 nationals when i questioned Todd Jarret about magazines i noticed that even in open class Todd runs factory mag tubes with factory extended pads. when asked he said he uses ONLY factory followers with Wolff springs.

i hope that helps

Sharon Anne L 2387

[Detlef]

then you are not in the *danger zone*, but you also shoot your gun way below capacity! With those Grams/Dawson pads 18 rds fit, with give to reload. 18 vs. 14 is a *huge* advantage! But (back to the thread) that's where all malfunctions start. So, I am not surprised that you don't have any, but a 14rd P14 is not strictly a high-cap gun!

--Detlef

(Edited by Detlef at 5:58 pm on Nov. 25, 2002)

[j1b]

Dogma

Most blasters these days should work pretty well. I have a hi-cap Springfield .40 that shoots great and reliably. Most STV/I guns do as well.

I'm like Eric - my blaster continues to go. I haven't touched or tuned mags in forever. In fact - I still use the mags I used some 8 years ago w/ my 9x25.

Truly - a limited gun should run pretty flawless under most all circumstances. If you buy and the gun doesn't work - make certain you aren't doing something wrong. If that doesn't fix it - then something is probably wrong w/ the heater.

JB

[IPSC CHIK1]

let me get this straight. i am somehow better off with an 18 rd mag that jams the gun vs. a 14 rd that runs flawlessly. i do NOT see the logic!

Sharon Anne USPSA L 2387

[Singlestack]

I believe his point was 14 rds is not much better than 10 in a division where everyone else is running 20 and most target arrays are 8 rounds.

[Detlef]

no, Sharon, my point was that with a properly tuned 18rd setup you are *much* better off than with a properly tuned 14rd setup. It can be done. In fact I had it. You tried to make the point that you don't know what the hell those jammers are talking about, you have this gun that runs all day and night. Well (so I say) not a big surprise, you don't have a high-cap!

--Detlef

(Edited by Detlef at 5:42 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

[Singlestack]

---

Quote: from Detlef on 6:41 am on Nov. 26, 2002

you don't have a high-cap!

---

Thats what I ment! Sorry to answer for you Detlef.

[Detlef]

thanks anyway. I can use all the help I can get against *the other side*....

--Detlef

[Madmark]

Not that I have ANY insight into the female mind, but what I think she was saying is: Men in general are never satisfied with anything working the way it was designed to. As a matter of fact, wether it is the family car, the computer, the stereo, or a perfectly good running firearm, most men revert back to there inbred desire to dissassemble anything they can get their hands on. Just so they can say "I fixed it!" (uh, yeah, I am guilty) Case in point: The topic immediatly under this one in this forum is from a MAN called "wiztech" who needs help getting his LDA back together!!! I'll bet Sharons gun is operational......... Detlef said he HAD (past tense) some 18 rounders that didn"t jam. Hmmmm  My first 17 shots in pistol competition were jams in open division, due to my gun being "modified to race" Ha! The moral to the story is let a reputable gunsmith tune your Hicaps, then leave them alone. If you cannot afford the required service, shoot L-10!!!  Gotta go, my wife needs something fixed........  

[Duane Thomas]

"As a matter of fact, wether it is the family car, the computer, the stereo, or a perfectly good running firearm, most men revert back to there inbred desire to dissassemble anything they can get their hands on. Just so they can say "I fixed it!"

Not me! But then I've been told there's a strong female component to the way my mind works....

[TDean]

Duane, your scaring me...

P-14's: With the Dawson pads, I get 17 in two of them and 18 in one.  The 18rd mag was the one supplied with the gun.  The other two were "coupon" mags...interesting.

No FTF yet....perfectly reliable with Arredondo followers in all three (purple).

[Guest bulm5]

I can get 18 on my para mags P 16 40 with .45 followers withi Arredondo base pads. No problems at all.

[j1b]

Sometimes I wonder if we worked as hard to make certain we didn't have a miss in a match as we did at seeing if we couldn't squeeze another round in a magazine if ultimately we wouldn't all turn in better results????

Ah forget it - its more fun to tinker with the equipment : )

JB

[Detlef]

Jack surely has a point. Still, when looking around big matches I would rate malfunctions up there with misses as top performance killer.

bulm5, you, too, don't have a high-cap (and therefore no problems). 20-21 rds in the 40 is the mark.

--D

[j1b]

Totally agree.

If the gun doesn't work - you can't perform. In fact - not only does the gun not working effect the time - it also effects your ability shoot well because you're thinking about whether or not the gun will work.

JB

[diehli]

I'd have to agree. Misses are easier for me to recover from than a problem with the gun. For some reason it's more psychologically damaging when equipment takes a crap.

I had LOADS of mag problems thanks to crappy reloads this past weekend that truly caused the bulk of my problems. Of course, it being my first IPSC match only added to the stress.

Made me wish I was shooting solely steel instead. Unfortunately I didn't realize it was an ammo problem until yesterday.

Ah well, live and learn.

(Edited by 300lbGorilla at 1:41 am on Nov. 28, 2002)

[Chris40]

Dogmadog where do you shoot at in New Orleans I shoot at Nick's

[Guest bulm5]

" bulm5 you don't have a hicap since your guns holds only 18"

Now there is a new definition of what hicap means. Y'all a lot of turkey last night??????