The Ultimate Revolver

[cavallino]

If one was to apply benchrest rifle technolgy to a revolver, what type of features would you incorperate into building the ultimate half inch group at 50 meters type revolver on say a 686 smith and wesson action? For example machining work required, type of barrel and twist rate for a given bullet weight, or even the deep dark secrets applied by master gunsmiths like checking hammer and trigger pin alignment and straightness of the frame?

[Carmoney]

I think the real key would be a custom cylinder, precision machined to put each cartridge in perfect alignment with the bore, and very minimal play in the cylinder lock-up.

I have a buddy with a Hamilton Bowen custom Ruger Redhawk that has a special 5-shot cylinder, and it locks up like a vault. Something like that would be a very good start.

Then I think it would come down to having the perfect bore and chamber dimensions for the particular load, and giving special attention to loading ammunition that's as consistent as possible.

[RogerT]

Benchrest and revolvers, what an odd image....

I think that the russian Nagant revolver, where the brass closes the gap between cylinder and barrel would be a good start, not a S&W frame?

[R112mercer]

I think the real key would be a custom cylinder, precision machined to put each cartridge in perfect alignment with the bore, and very minimal play in the cylinder lock-up.

I have a buddy with a Hamilton Bowen custom Ruger Redhawk that has a special 5-shot cylinder, and it locks up like a vault. Something like that would be a very good start.

I think Bowen bores the cylinder holes with the cylinder in the frame, through the hole where the barrel would be. Makes for excellent barrel/cylinder line-up.

[Tom E]

1. Very tight chambers so the round is close to centered "laying' in the bottom of the chamber.

2. Shortest possible cylinder to minimize chamber to barrel jump.

3. Tight forcing cone.

4. Perfect chamber to barrel alignment with vault like lockup.

Woulb be an interesting exercise but I think Linebaugh and Bowen and Freedom Arms and probably a few others pretty much do this. Tom

[cavallino]

I would have to agree that the work done on single action revolvers from the likes of Hamilton Bowen and others is first class. Does anyone know if double action revolvers have been line bored with undersize cylinders in this way? I guess the hard part would be in machining the cylinder from scratch compared to a single action cylinder. Would a tighter "match chamber" have a big influence on accuracy, or would it possibly contribute to unreliable loading/unloading?

[Carmoney]

Does anyone know if double action revolvers have been line bored with undersize cylinders in this way?

Yes, the Bowen revolver I referred to above was a Redhawk. Very cool gun, designed for Alaskan bear defense before the manufacturers thought of doing a DA bear defense gun.

Would a tighter "match chamber" have a big influence on accuracy, or would it possibly contribute to unreliable loading/unloading?

And therein lies the problem. The chambers on that 5-shot custom Redhawk were very tight, so tight that even a bit of dirt or misformed ammo would create problems.

[Nemo]

I don't know for bench rest, but Cliff and I talked about the Ultimate ICORE revo:

A 10-round 9mm built on a S&W X-frame! Kinda like a 617 on steroids!

Hey Randy, how many 9mil holes can you safely and functionally accomodate on a X-frame cylinder?

We all know Mr. Hearth would help with the moonies!

Edited May 8, 2007 by Nemo

[raz-0]

Benchrest and revolvers, what an odd image....

Yeah, no kidding. I'm picturing taking a 686. Putting a 16" long 2" diameter bull barrel on it. Then machining it so that you can use a screw to lock the alignment of any given cylender down with an allen key without relying on the precision of the lockwork. then mounting the whole thing to a railroad tie, placing it on a bench, and operating it via a hydraulic trigger release.

[Carlos]

Benchrest and revolvers, what an odd image....

Putting a 16" long 2" diameter bull barrel on it. .

In England, don't they still allow certain "long barreled Revolvers" and classify them as rifles? Odd - for sure - but perhaps they have some insights?

[hearthco]

I don't know for bench rest, but Cliff and I talked about the Ultimate ICORE revo:

A 10-round 9mm built on a S&W X-frame! Kinda like a 617 on steroids!

Hey Randy, how many 9mil holes can you safely and functionally accomodate on a X-frame cylinder?

We all know Mr. Hearth would help with the moonies!

You have to raise the barrel about .118 to get .040 between chambers.

Can you say "HAND GRANADE?"

If you raise the barrel that much you have to move the firing pin,

If you move the firing pin that much you have to weld up and re-machine the frame,

If you do that stuff, you need a new hammer,

and you still end up with a big bullet jump from the long cylinder, so you need to get a new barrel and set it back for a short 9mm cylinder.

Still want a 10 round 9mm?

[Nemo]

You have to raise the barrel about .118 to get .040 between chambers.

Can you say "HAND GRANADE?"

If you raise the barrel that much you have to move the firing pin,

If you move the firing pin that much you have to weld up and re-machine the frame,

If you do that stuff, you need a new hammer,

and you still end up with a big bullet jump from the long cylinder, so you need to get a new barrel and set it back for a short 9mm cylinder.

Still want a 10 round 9mm?

I never said I knew what it takes to build a revo. But to anwer your question, OF COURSE I WANT ONE! Now the question is, would you make me the moonclips?

Seriously now, what is raising the barrel?

[Bubber]

You have to raise the barrel about .118 to get .040 between chambers.

Can you say "HAND GRANADE?"

If you raise the barrel that much you have to move the firing pin,

If you move the firing pin that much you have to weld up and re-machine the frame,

If you do that stuff, you need a new hammer,

and you still end up with a big bullet jump from the long cylinder, so you need to get a new barrel and set it back for a short 9mm cylinder.

Still want a 10 round 9mm?

I never said I knew what it takes to build a revo. But to anwer your question, OF COURSE I WANT ONE! Now the question is, would you make me the moonclips?

Seriously now, what is raising the barrel?

Nemo, From my limited knowledge (if it can be called that) raising the barrel is getting the centerline of the bore higher. It can be done a couple of way I know of. One is machining the barrel so that the bore is NOT consintrict (sp) with the barrel so as you screw the barrel on the bore will be set as high as possible when tightened against the frame. Not easy but doable for a good smith/machinist. The old eight shot I have was done this way because the chambers of the cylinders had to be set at the distance to get them to fit. I have seen a ten shot 32 magnum for ICORE (D@*^ Gamers)

[David Sinko]

Years ago Ross Seyfried wrote an article for Guns & Ammo magazine about a "minute of angle revolver." The revolver was based on a .45 Colt Blackhawk that had a five shot cylinder which had been line bored by Bowen. It took Bowen two attempts to get it bored properly but when done right the gun would shoot! My Bowen .45 Colt Redhawk is simply a re-bore of a six shot .44 Magnum cylinder and barrel and he used the tight (small bodied) reamers. The chambers are tight enough that even moderately heavy factory loaded brass that is fired in a "normal" .45 Colt chamber will not fit into the Bowen cylinder after it has been resized. I never saw this as a problem since my brass would never wear out and practically last forever. The Redhawk is a great gun but it has various weaknesses and mine has been shot out of time. It is back at Bowen's shop waiting for repair since September. Frankly I am disappointed, since I am already a customer and this gun is extensively used for concealed carry purposes.

Dave Sinko

[Carmoney]

A frickin' Redhawk for concealed carry????

Cool!!

[jasond]

a single action would sure be easier to keep the cylinder lined up.

what cartridge do you guys think would be the easiest to make accurate?

i shoot 100 meter nra silhouettes, sometimes with my 627 V8, and it's not the gun that's doing all the missing. i'm using 158 speer or nosler jhp's, 10.5 blue dot, sorted and trimmed cases, and fed 200 primers. i've tried a bunch of other stuff, some of which worked just as well but cost more.

i have a contender also, with 10" .22lr and .30-30 barrels. not a revo, though.