Carmoney Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I don't really get the heavy bullet thing (170-200 gr.) here. I guess if you're intent on making major with it that's one thing, but for ICORE??? You have to make the bullets stick so far out the front of the case that you lose the whole advantage of shooting .38 Short Colt in the first place. If you're loading them way long like that, you might as well just use .38 Special brass and load them to the same length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I don't really get the heavy bullet thing (170-200 gr.) here. I guess if you're intent on making major with it that's one thing, but for ICORE??? You have to make the bullets stick so far out the front of the case that you lose the whole advantage of shooting .38 Short Colt in the first place. If you're loading them way long like that, you might as well just use .38 Special brass and load them to the same length. Mike neither do I, but my friend who shot the qualifier with these guys said it worked very well. The heavy bullet loaded really fast despite being loaded long and was soft shooting. I never got to meet these guys but guess they had a different load for the 50 yard stage. My guess is they played with a lot of different combo and came up with something they liked. Maybe they read ths board and will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 If I remember correctly.....Jerry used to shoot the Sierra 170fmjs when they made them.....tack driver at 50yds.....I assume that the 170s shoot pretty well too....... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I don't really get the heavy bullet thing (170-200 gr.) here. I guess if you're intent on making major with it that's one thing, but for ICORE??? You have to make the bullets stick so far out the front of the case that you lose the whole advantage of shooting .38 Short Colt in the first place. If you're loading them way long like that, you might as well just use .38 Special brass and load them to the same length. mike - it's not really for the maj power factor thing. I've been taking my 38 special cases and cutting them to short colt length, then using a 170 grain bullet. You can make a cutter for under 40 bucks and it takes about 20 seconds to cut and remove the burr. Then you've got a shorter case, goes into the cylinder faster, but comes out faster and has less chance to hang up coming out. Load data is similar to 9mm, the case is the same length. By using just regular old brass, I don't have to purchase short colt moons and only get brass from Starline. Should I ever need to borrow ammo while at a match, anybodys 38 ammo should fit the moons. If you're one of those guys that keeps reloading brass till powder falls thru the cracks, it's a great way to recycle old cases. I've tried the major route with them and it's not worth the effort for me, I miss the target just a well with minor as major, so I save the powder. But the added weight of the 170 over the 158 seems to help my reloads. The extra weight in the cylinder may hinder a lighter trigger pull/cylinder rotation, but I think it's worth it for the loading ease. The 170's seem to do a better job on the steel at a longer distance. Sorta like reloading gap for the 625, do you really need a cartridge this short? No, but it's fun to make one and have it work... michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 You can make a cutter for under 40 bucks and it takes about 20 seconds to cut and remove the burr. michaels So tell me more about making this jig.....I love to tinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannepang Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) This is what a friend of mine uses for IPSC.To the left 38 Colt, 200 grains copper plated Archipelago .357 To the right .45 ACP The .38 Colt has a velocity of around 865 fps shot from a 6" S&W 686. PF 172 - 175. Note the bottom of the 200 grain bullet 2/5 way down the .38 Colt case. Edit: The powder is N350. Wow.. I recognize my major load:-) The première were on a lev 3 competition, Sandaknallen in Årjäng (Sweden). The recoil feels great.. No problems with poppers:-) Thanks to Cooper 999 who have helped me a lot with advice!! Are you using 38 Short Colt Brass or 38 Long Colt Brass to acheive this load and do you have the over all length measurement. Yes it is 38 Short Colt brass. The OAL is 32,25mm. (1.270 inch) (Edited with the OAL) Edited September 7, 2007 by dannepang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hello: This 38 short Colt sounds like the way to go for IDPA SSR to me. Being shorter it should load faster-correct? What do you use to cut the brass down with a small pipe cutter or a fixture in a drill press? Would a stock 686 shoot these? I know alot of questions but it is better to ask guys that know there stuff. I appreciate all the info. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hello: This 38 short Colt sounds like the way to go for IDPA SSR to me. Being shorter it should load faster-correct? What do you use to cut the brass down with a small pipe cutter or a fixture in a drill press? Would a stock 686 shoot these? I know alot of questions but it is better to ask guys that know there stuff. I appreciate all the info. Thanks, Eric not make this thread drift in another direction but IDPA won't let you shoot the the short colt or long colt unless your gun was made just for that round, it must say on it somewhere (from the factory) 38 short or long. Had a long discussion with Robt. Ray and the other guy about it and they came to the conculsion that it's to much of an advantage. I was stopped using them last year, had been loading them with a 95 grain 380 bullet. Really a dream to shoot. You really didn't need ear protection with it... Later this year we'll see what happens when I show up with a bunch of the cut down 357 mag brass that I did a couple of months ago. I was planning on saying that they're just 357's (see the headstamp) with really short bullets in them... michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) You can make a cutter for under 40 bucks and it takes about 20 seconds to cut and remove the burr. michaels So tell me more about making this jig.....I love to tinker. I bought the cutter at a place called Harbor Freight, a chain store for tools and such. Got the vise there too. Just wacked off the parts of the vise with a dremel that were keeping the vise from not snugging up to the mini chop saw. Got the collet from brownell's, one for 38 and one for 45. Just stick a full size case in the collet and move the vise to where it's the right distance from the mini saw and chop the little guys up. I fastened the vise and saw to the wooden table that I made and when ever I feel the urge to cut up brass, I just fire it up. I put a dremel with a stone wheel shapped like a cone next to me and when I got a couple of hundred brass cut, I just put the dremel on really low speed and insert the stone for about 1 second into the cutoff case, that takes care of any burrs on the inside of the case. I did skip that step for some and just tumbled then for awhile, did about the same, but I liked the look of the dremel edge better. Takes about 10 seconds to do a case on the mini chop and then another 5 seconds with the dremel. I made one mistake when I first started out. I used just 357 mag brass, as I figured being a low powered guy, I'd never use the brass. They cut really easy, but when loading them, I found out that mag brass is thicker than 38 special brass down around the base where I made my cut. I really had to flare the case to get the rounds in there. This also led me to having to put a rather heavy crimp, making the round look a little bottle nosed...they seem to have worked ok, but the 38 special brass doesn't need the same crimp. michaels Edited September 7, 2007 by michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsaxdog Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 tried to make the 158gr. minor loads work w/ bullseye and vv310. way too fast!! by the time you consistently over 800fps, gets really squirrelley(is that a word?). cases get stuck, terrible accuracy. american select works pretty good at @ 3.2 grains, seating really deep and heavily crimped, but the velocities are still not very consistent. the small capacity case makes the whole affair really twitchy! i really think that there is way too much jump for the bullet in a 686/.357 cylinder for a round this short. i got it working ok, but i bet there's something that could be mechanically improved to make the thing more efficient. with a better chamber, i bet the faster powders/heavy bullet thing would really work. then again, i may not know my %&* from my elbow, either...... anyways, they're on their way to Iowa, see if they work. cliff's ammo is in there too, i put alot of stoopid on it(don't tell him!), so it's gotta help everybody involved! if dan cardon is reading, maybe you could bring your short colt gun and we could learn something. see y'all there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 No Problemo....ShooterDoc has my Short Colt gun, but he will bring it over for the match so you can check it out if you want to. I have never messed with heavier bullets than 147-150 for the same reasons you listed as well..... See you there! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsaxdog Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 that'll be cool........and i promise not to call you dan anymore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Hello: This 38 short Colt sounds like the way to go for IDPA SSR to me. Being shorter it should load faster-correct? What do you use to cut the brass down with a small pipe cutter or a fixture in a drill press? Would a stock 686 shoot these? I know alot of questions but it is better to ask guys that know there stuff. I appreciate all the info. Thanks, Eric not make this thread drift in another direction but IDPA won't let you shoot the the short colt or long colt unless your gun was made just for that round, it must say on it somewhere (from the factory) 38 short or long. Had a long discussion with Robt. Ray and the other guy about it and they came to the conculsion that it's to much of an advantage. I was stopped using them last year, had been loading them with a 95 grain 380 bullet. Really a dream to shoot. You really didn't need ear protection with it... Later this year we'll see what happens when I show up with a bunch of the cut down 357 mag brass that I did a couple of months ago. I was planning on saying that they're just 357's (see the headstamp) with really short bullets in them... michaels That's kind of crazy for Robert to say that the caliber that you are shooting must be listed on the gun, I guess all those guys shooting 38 special from their .357 magnum marked barrels are all DQ'd for shooting that shorter round for easier loading and better ejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdkay Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 How about the guys shooting 44 special in a gun marked 44 magnum? Or shooting 40 s&W in their 610? I took a quick gander at the rules, NOWHERE did it mention any thing of the sort. Of course they have their "anti-gaming" rules etc... and I do believe that they have a valid argument there. You wouldn't carry a defensive pistol loaded with short colt rounds, so you can't use it. That is the argument the should have used, not that nonsense they were spewing. It seems they blurted out the quickest thing that came to mind instead of telling you that they would research the correct answer and get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Can we get back to the topic at hand? There is an IDPA folder for those who need it. This thread has pretty good info in it about short colt data and reloads lets stay on topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 using the 170 grain round nose moly leads from Bear Creek, pushed out by a federal small primer, igniting 3.6 grains of titegroup, down the barrel of my 627 5 inch, the chrono gave me enough for 134-139 power factor. Each moon extracted easily and I didn't see any bad signs on the cases. Each case is a cut down 38 special brass, these have been reloaded now 4 times and no signs of case cracking. They are the same size as a short colt from Starline. The Starline brass that I tried, cracked after the 2nd loading, nothing has been changed in the 650 setup between types of brass. michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 using the 170 grain round nose moly leads from Bear Creek, pushed out by a federal small primer, igniting 3.6 grains of titegroup, down the barrel of my 627 5 inch, the chrono gave me enough for 134-139 power factor. Each moon extracted easily and I didn't see any bad signs on the cases. Each case is a cut down 38 special brass, these have been reloaded now 4 times and no signs of case cracking. They are the same size as a short colt from Starline. The Starline brass that I tried, cracked after the 2nd loading, nothing has been changed in the 650 setup between types of brass. michaels What is your OAL? Sounds like a lower charge than 3.6gr of TG would work. For ICORE I try to get 127-130PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdkay Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) Carefull, the topic police are out looking for perpetrators that hijack posts Edited November 7, 2007 by fdkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) ICORE seems to be OK. Just can't mention IDPA. OOPS, I said it. Am I banished to the ICORE folder? Edited November 7, 2007 by Tom E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 hey y'all.....cliff gave me some short colt brass and a 686 cut for moon clips to try for the iowa single stack/revo match, so i'm trying to find some load data. i realize YMMV, but..... just trying to start someplace and he told me about this thread, so here i am.... found some old lyman manual data for 9mm 158gr. lead and bullseye, will try it and work up slow, post some results here. got some data for the .38 S&W, looks pretty close. plus, it's cliff's gun, so what the heck!!! I don't know anyone who has made major with a 38 short colt, but for a minor load of 127.5 power factor I use the following. 150 Master Blaster .357 Moly coated bullets V V N310 2.9 grains seated at 1.175 When I crept into the 3 to 3.1 grains I started to get sticky extractions. This is the load I use for ICORE. But if you want to try and make major go for it after all it is Cliff's gun. Well I just found out today that Master Blaster bullets closed its doors due to the high cost of lead. Now it's back to the drawing board as the load I have above was printing 2" at 50 yds out of my 38 Short Colt revolver. I am going to try LTD Custom Cast Bullets owned by Wayne Doudna as he is showing 2 diffferent 150 gr rn .357 bullets. Has anybody used his bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now