Feed Problems In A Para?

[steel1212]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

[adiksaputok]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

try to polish the extractor.

try a shorter load 1165 oal or rim the barrel so it can handle longer ammo.

i have the same problem before until i decided to replace my slide and it was done by Matt C. and the gun works flawless since.....good luck

[45gunner]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

My para 16-40 will take rounds up to 1.23 and most 1911 .40 cal will. Look like you using reloads that are not crimped correctly at the mouth of the bullet or you have bulge in you brass at the base.

Do you reload Glock rounds frequently?

What is the case dimension where the bullet meets the brass?

Do you chamber check or use a case gauge on your rounds before shooting them?

Does your pistol shoot factory rounds with no problem?

Edited April 13, 2007 by 45gunner

[steel1212]

try to polish the extractor.

try a shorter load 1165 oal or rim the barrel so it can handle longer ammo.

i have the same problem before until i decided to replace my slide and it was done by Matt C. and the gun works flawless since.....good luck

I'm going to start using my XD loads which are coming out 1.135-1.140ish. I'll see how that goes.

My extractor is polished and has a slight bevel as well so that the rim can come up into it easier.

The feed ramp has had a slight polish job as well but I might do a little more it as well.

Edited April 14, 2007 by steel1212

[Joe4d]

Para's dont need to be longloaded. I would load to duplicate factory OAL with similar bullet profiles. I am in an area where I frequently have to shoot matches with factory ammo (American Eagle 165's) so my reloads pretty much duplicate them.

[Dave C]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

I had the exact same problem when I got my new PXT.

Polish the extractor and don't load any longer tha 1.150. It worked for my 1640 PXT. The chamber in my PXT is shorter than the chamber in my older 1640 limited.

[45gunner]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

I had the exact same problem when I got my new PXT.

Polish the extractor and don't load any longer tha 1.150. It worked for my 1640 PXT. The chamber in my PXT is shorter than the chamber in my older 1640 limited.

Steel1212,

I think you need to look for information elsewhere as these two Dumba's don't now what there talking about.

They don't know a PXT from a hole in the wall.

I have a Para 16-40 limited PXT. Pxt in the type of extractor on the gun not the type of Gun. These Bozo don't know the difference.

I believe there trying to sell you somthing. When the first Dumba told you to get a new slide that should have tipped you off.

[steel1212]

I thought I answered these but the post never showed...weird

Do you reload Glock rounds frequently? Yup but I use a FCD

What is the case dimension where the bullet meets the brass? .421 (I use moly bullets)

Do you chamber check or use a case gauge on your rounds before shooting them? Yup with a dillon gauge

Does your pistol shoot factory rounds with no problem? I've shot around 300 rounds of WWB and it has done the nose into the chamber thing a few times.

[45gunner]

I thought I answered these but the post never showed...weird

Do you reload Glock rounds frequently? Yup but I use a FCD

What is the case dimension where the bullet meets the brass? .421 (I use moly bullets)

Do you chamber check or use a case gauge on your rounds before shooting them? Yup with a dillon gauge

Does your pistol shoot factory rounds with no problem? I've shot around 300 rounds of WWB and it has done the nose into the chamber thing a few times.

What model is you pistol?

Is it a micro compact?

[steel1212]

What model is you pistol?

Is it a micro compact?

New P16 with the PXT extractor

[Dave C]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

I had the exact same problem when I got my new PXT.

Polish the extractor and don't load any longer tha 1.150. It worked for my 1640 PXT. The chamber in my PXT is shorter than the chamber in my older 1640 limited.

Steel1212,

I think you need to look for information elsewhere as these two Dumba's don't now what there talking about.

They don't know a PXT from a hole in the wall.

I have a Para 16-40 limited PXT. Pxt in the type of extractor on the gun not the type of Gun. These Bozo don't know the difference.

I believe there trying to sell you somthing. When the first Dumba told you to get a new slide that should have tipped you off.

I guess that I am the second of the Dumba's or Bozos that 45 Gunner is referring to. For 45 Gunner's information, I have two Para 1640 Limiteds. One is the older standard extractor and the other is the new PXT extractor model. I will be shooting one of the two at the USPSA National Championship in June. The other will serve as my back up gun.

45 Gunner, will I see you at the USPSA Nationals?

Steel1212,

If you would like more information, I will be happy to assist you.

[HSMITH]

First of all, is the extractor tunnel clean? If you haven't cleaned it in a while take the extractor out and clean both it and the slide well. Gunk in the extractor tunnel will act like too much extractor tension.

Loading longer WILL help with this type of jam, it is just a matter of if there is enough throat to support it. Loading longer lets the case slide into the extractor at a shallower angle than short loads do, short loads shouldn't hang up but loading longer can help mask problems like this one. Drop a couple of the long loaded rounds into the chamber and rotate them after you have colored the bullets with a sharpie. Are there any marks on the bullet? If so the loads are too long, if not load some a little longer and check again, it is nice to know how long is too long for each gun and this is a great time to figure that out.

USUALLY this jam is caused by too much extractor tension and/or a rough extractor that is catching on the case rim and digging in. I agree with the suggestions to polish the extractor right behind the hook where the case rim will slide into. JUST break the edges and smooth it out, you don't need much.

[steel1212]

First of all, is the extractor tunnel clean? If you haven't cleaned it in a while take the extractor out and clean both it and the slide well. Gunk in the extractor tunnel will act like too much extractor tension.

Loading longer WILL help with this type of jam, it is just a matter of if there is enough throat to support it. Loading longer lets the case slide into the extractor at a shallower angle than short loads do, short loads shouldn't hang up but loading longer can help mask problems like this one. Drop a couple of the long loaded rounds into the chamber and rotate them after you have colored the bullets with a sharpie. Are there any marks on the bullet? If so the loads are too long, if not load some a little longer and check again, it is nice to know how long is too long for each gun and this is a great time to figure that out.

USUALLY this jam is caused by too much extractor tension and/or a rough extractor that is catching on the case rim and digging in. I agree with the suggestions to polish the extractor right behind the hook where the case rim will slide into. JUST break the edges and smooth it out, you don't need much.

I wish I could show you the pic of the long loads but it just keeps coming out fuzzy. I don't know if its hitting the rifling or hitting the end of the chamber but there is a distinct mark on the lead right in front the brass but its not an angled mark just horizontal. I've got a friend thats good with 1911s, read builds them, that is going to polish up the ramp a little better and work on the extractor for me.

[Dave C]

You might want to just remove the barrel and ensure that the chamber is good and clean. Drop a factory round into the chamber and listen to the sound that it makes. It will make be a "pop" sound as the mouth of the case contacts the front of the chamber. The round will rotate freely in the chamber. You will not be able to press the round any deeper in the chamber. When you turn the barrel upside down, the factory round will fall out of the chamber. Now try to do the same thing with your long loaded rounds. You will quickly find out if they are contacting the lands (rifling).

Like said earlier, with my new para PXT and a round nose bullet, I can only load to about 1.160. With truncated cone bullet, I can load to about 1.175. I have chosen to load all my 40 caliber para bullets to 1.150, because they work in both of my paras and also in my STI single stack. If I want to, I can also use the same OAL (1.150) in my Glock 22 and 23.

If your friend has a throat reamer, he could ream it so you could load longer if you wanted to, but as was said above, the para will run with a standard length 40 cal (1.125-1.135).

Different bullet designs as well as overall length can effect how the cartridge head slides up under the extractor.

Edited April 15, 2007 by Dave C

[HSMITH]

Corey, if it is hitting the rifling it will be at a smaller radius than if the bullet is hitting the end of the chamber. You said lead, so you are shooting lead bullets right? What shape are they? My guess now is that they have a full diameter portion that is sticking out of the case when they are loaded long, and your throat isn't cut for that. The throat is probably .4005" or so and the bullet is .401" or a hair more, if you want to load lead long you are going to be changing bullet shapes or getting the barrel throated for lead bullets. Benny Hill has the right throating reamer for lead bullets as others do I am sure, but he is the only one that I know of for sure that has the reamer that needs to be used on your barrel.

DON'T cut the chamber deeper, the chamber is fine. The THROAT is what needs to be addressed.

[steel1212]

Corey, if it is hitting the rifling it will be at a smaller radius than if the bullet is hitting the end of the chamber. You said lead, so you are shooting lead bullets right? What shape are they? My guess now is that they have a full diameter portion that is sticking out of the case when they are loaded long, and your throat isn't cut for that. The throat is probably .4005" or so and the bullet is .401" or a hair more, if you want to load lead long you are going to be changing bullet shapes or getting the barrel throated for lead bullets. Benny Hill has the right throating reamer for lead bullets as others do I am sure, but he is the only one that I know of for sure that has the reamer that needs to be used on your barrel.

DON'T cut the chamber deeper, the chamber is fine. The THROAT is what needs to be addressed.

They are moly coated from Bear Creek but yeah .401. And yes again when loaded long they have a full diameter portion sticking out and what ever it was, throat/rifling, hit it. I'm thinking it was a little thicker than normal bullet as it didn't do it on all rounds just a couple. They are also Trunicate cone.

Unless I'm going to seriously gain something I think I'm going to just run 1.135ish ammo as it will also work in my XD when I shoot production....and yes I shoot 170PF for production...makes for good steel hits

I've heard that the long loaded rounds are suppost to be more accurate and I guess I could load 10 at 1.150, 1.160, 1.170 to see if it does it there as well.

[HSMITH]

Long loads may or may not be more accurate, only experimenting will tell.

FWIW, I run all my guns with a good bit of freebore in them. In my STI 40's I can load to 1.285" with a Zero 180 JHP and possibly longer, those are as long as the magazines will take. I like a good bit of freebore to help with chambering issues, it lowers pressures a bit, and accuracy is just as good if not better than a bullet sitting right on the rifling. If you have a week or two where you won't need the gun I would send the barrel out and have it throated, it certainly won't hurt anything and will likely help in a couple areas.

[45gunner]

I'm having some issues with my new para. Yes it has the PXT extractor.

I've been told by several people that it looks like the brass isn't getting under the extrator as its hitting the roof of the chamber. If I tap the rear of the slide it goes right into battery. This doesn't happen all the time.

The second issue I've been having is if I load to 1.180-1.185 some of the loads will jam tight into the chamber with slide just out of battery. It looks like these loads may be hitting the rifling but again not all do it.

Does the para need short factory type loads? Is there something I can do to the extractor?

I had the exact same problem when I got my new PXT.

Polish the extractor and don't load any longer tha 1.150. It worked for my 1640 PXT. The chamber in my PXT is shorter than the chamber in my older 1640 limited.

Steel1212,

I think you need to look for information elsewhere as these two Dumba's don't now what there talking about.

They don't know a PXT from a hole in the wall.

I have a Para 16-40 limited PXT. Pxt in the type of extractor on the gun not the type of Gun. These Bozo don't know the difference.

I believe there trying to sell you somthing. When the first Dumba told you to get a new slide that should have tipped you off.

I guess that I am the second of the Dumba's or Bozos that 45 Gunner is referring to. For 45 Gunner's information, I have two Para 1640 Limiteds. One is the older standard extractor and the other is the new PXT extractor model. I will be shooting one of the two at the USPSA National Championship in June. The other will serve as my back up gun.

45 Gunner, will I see you at the USPSA Nationals?

Steel1212,

If you would like more information, I will be happy to assist you.

Other that myself, Hsmith, is the only one giving this person any good advise.

I also have the new Para 16-40 Limited PXT it will chamber up to 1.2"

Unless Para suddenly started making barrels with different chamber sizes then you information is completly wrong.

Don't be telling people who don't know any better that they need to do work on the chamber length to take a longer length when the barrel comes from the factory that will already do that.

No Im not going to the Nationals. Good luck at the Nationals. Stick to what you good at.(Shooting)

You may have good intensions but if I were you I would not be giving advise on this forum.

If a person has a new Para Pistol I suggest that they get on the www.1911.org and go to the Para section and post a question to George Wedge.

The solution to fixing a new pistol is to send it back to the factory and not start having Gunsmiths work on.

Edited April 15, 2007 by 45gunner

[mike cyrwus]

no need to be rude, Mr. para expert.

[Dave C]

Steel 1212,

In my first post I referred to me having one chamber (poor choice of words on my part) that was shorter than the other, when in fact, I have one chamber that has less free bore (shorter throat ) than the other. (is the throat part of the chamber? ) The shorter throat has a direct effect on the maximum the overall length I am able to load my cartridges.

I apologize for my lack grammar skills.

I hope I did not lead you astray.

Dave

[buddy_fuentes]

Dave, just between me and you I had a short chambered Para. When I tried to load long it would studder. I had a gunsmith ream the "chamber" a tad and that fixed my problem. I guess the extra free-bore gave me a little more velocity. When I chronographed my loads I had picked up roughly 35 fps average. It cost me $35.00 and the gun runs flawless.

Hope I didn't offend anyone else reading this.

Buddy

[steel1212]

I'm not exactly a newbie so I know what most of you are saying or trying to say. I agree there is no need for name calling.

Back on topic I loaded 1.130-1.135 last night, basically my XD load, and it ran flawlessly today through 200 rounds at the plates. Put up a paper plate with a little 3" shoot in see stuck to it at 10 yards and if I did my part could make them touch right dab in the middle. I would say the tight throat might have something to do with the problem with long loads. My friend beveled my extractor a touch and that seemed to help that problem. If it keeps running fine with the shorter loads and is that accurate it will be fine with me. That just means I only have to load one 40 for both my XD and my Para. I only have to use 4.2 grains of TG to make 170PF through my XD and I need to chrono that load through the para but other than that it looks like I may have found the problem.

[45gunner]

no need to be rude, Mr. para expert.

Sorry everyone did not mean to be so snooty. My aplogies.

Im not Para expert but I have worked on my Para 16-40 Limited with PXT enough to know lots of things about it and I have been in a discussion like this before on the same topic.

I some day hope to be an expert.

Even a Glock 35 barrel with take a long round but the long round will not fit in the magazine.

For a discusson on why .40 cal pistol are loaded long see:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=31420&hl=

Edited April 15, 2007 by 45gunner

[want2race]

Back on topic I loaded 1.130-1.135 last night, basically my XD load, and it ran flawlessly today through 200 rounds at the plates. Put up a paper plate with a little 3" shoot in see stuck to it at 10 yards and if I did my part could make them touch right dab in the middle.

Must have been that killer ramp polish that fixed the problem...

Actually it was a very mild polish job to see if it would make an improvement.

The extractor plunger spring on the PXT is very strong. Too strong I'd say but I'm no "Para Expert". I will try and post a pic of 1212's bullets with a ring around them. I'd say it's not his crimp as I run a rediculous amount of crimp and it did the same thing with my loads (same specs but crimp).

The thoat diameter is a bit snug for the Bear Creek Moly's loaded at .180-.185. Basically, on the rounds that bind, it scrapes the moly coat of the bullet.

The breech face on this particular pistol was pretty rough with deep tooling marks too.

When are major manuf. going to start hard chroming their pieces so the finish doesn't wear off in an afternoon? I guess that's for another thread.

[45gunner]

Back on topic I loaded 1.130-1.135 last night, basically my XD load, and it ran flawlessly today through 200 rounds at the plates. Put up a paper plate with a little 3" shoot in see stuck to it at 10 yards and if I did my part could make them touch right dab in the middle.

Must have been that killer ramp polish that fixed the problem...

Actually it was a very mild polish job to see if it would make an improvement.

The extractor plunger spring on the PXT is very strong. Too strong I'd say but I'm no "Para Expert". I will try and post a pic of 1212's bullets with a ring around them. I'd say it's not his crimp as I run a rediculous amount of crimp and it did the same thing with my loads (same specs but crimp).

The thoat diameter is a bit snug for the Bear Creek Moly's loaded at .180-.185. Basically, on the rounds that bind, it scrapes the moly coat of the bullet. It this is the case then by all mean decrease the Overall Length.

I use 1.175 in my Para 16-40.

The breech face on this particular pistol was pretty rough with deep tooling marks too.

When are major manuf. going to start hard chroming their pieces so the finish doesn't wear off in an afternoon? I guess that's for another thread.

The crimp not being enough would cause the bullet to not seat all of the way or possible just be snug going in.

If the bullet is contacting the rifling then you would get a ring and the bullet would also not seat.

I load with Montanna Gold Flat Point. These bullets should be wider at the nose of the bullet than other non flat points bullets. What the diamter of the Bear Creek bullets. What shape is the Bear Creek bullets?

How many rounds have been put through it.?

It could be a breaking in issue.

My Para 16-40 extractor PXT tension measures about two pounds as measured with a trigger guage.

If yours is greater that could be the problem with the extractor spring or its binding? Is so have you taken it apart to see what is binding.

Edited April 15, 2007 by 45gunner