Feed Problems In A Para?

[steel1212]

When are major manuf. going to start hard chroming their pieces so the finish doesn't wear off in an afternoon? I guess that's for another thread.

Don't get me started on that one!

The crimp not being enough would cause the bullet to not seat all of the way or possible just be snug going in. My crimp is .421 want2race's crimp was .418 and his did the same thing. Its not a crimp issue

What the diamter of the Bear Creek bullets. .401

What shape is the Bear Creek bullets? Trunicated cone

How many rounds have been put through it.? 2K+

If yours is greater that could be the problem with the extractor spring or its binding? Is so have you taken it apart to see what is binding. Don't think its a binding issue

[45gunner]

I thought I answered these but the post never showed...weird

Do you reload Glock rounds frequently? Yup but I use a FCD

What is the case dimension where the bullet meets the brass? .421 (I use moly bullets)

Do you chamber check or use a case gauge on your rounds before shooting them? Yup with a dillon gauge

Does your pistol shoot factory rounds with no problem? I've shot around 300 rounds of WWB and it has done the nose into the chamber thing a few times.

If reference to shooting factory rounds it may do the nose dive thing but when the bullet does feed does the gun slide fail to go into battery?

Just for fun I got my Para 16-40, with a UNPRIMMED AND UNCHAGED ROUND, put it in the magazine and pulled the magazine out slightly, simulating a weak mag spring, the primmed end of the round failed to go up under the extractor and also failed to chamber because the slide was binding on the bullet.

Have you dropped and damaged or replace any part on your magazines?

Trying changing to another magazine, magazine follower or magazine spring.

Edited April 15, 2007 by 45gunner

[steel1212]

It has never nose dived. Its always nose up into the top of the chamber or failed to completely go into battery.

The only time its failed to go into battery with out nosing up into the chamber is on the long loads.

There is nothing weak about any of the springs they are fairly new. It has also always done this from day one.

I honestly believe that part of it was solved when we beveled the extractor. The other part I think is do to a tight throat. If thats the case I think the problem is solved, time will tell.

[Jim Norman]

I just went thru a similar situation with my Para.

I had a new Schumann barrel fitted. The ramp was not properly finished and actually stood slightly proud of the frame, that is it stuck into the magazine space. My gun would nose dive and I have to admit, we all thought mag springs. New springs, clean, lube, you name it. Finally found .the ramp problem. A bit of very nervous Dremel work and the ramp problem was solved. Off to the range, 500 rounds of my normal 180 Zero JHP load and 4 of 5 mags were good to go.

Match day.

Disaster! Nose dive after nose dive.

I had been loading at 1.165 for years. Ran out of Zero heads and loaded Montana Gold. A friend had enough longer loads, 1.2 oal, same powder charge I use. Viola! Problem solved!

Now, I will as time permits work backwards to the failure length by .05” at a time.

For the time being problem under control.

Jim

[steel1212]

I just went thru a similar situation with my Para.

I had a new Schumann barrel fitted. The ramp was not properly finished and actually stood slightly proud of the frame, that is it stuck into the magazine space. My gun would nose dive and I have to admit, we all thought mag springs. New springs, clean, lube, you name it. Finally found .the ramp problem. A bit of very nervous Dremel work and the ramp problem was solved. Off to the range, 500 rounds of my normal 180 Zero JHP load and 4 of 5 mags were good to go.

Match day.

Disaster! Nose dive after nose dive.

I had been loading at 1.165 for years. Ran out of Zero heads and loaded Montana Gold. A friend had enough longer loads, 1.2 oal, same powder charge I use. Viola! Problem solved!

Now, I will as time permits work backwards to the failure length by .05” at a time.

For the time being problem under control.

Jim

Again its not nose diving into the feed ramp and stoping. It is nosing up into the top of the chamber and stoping when it did it. We are pretty sure the beveled extractor allowed the rim of the brass to ease under it easier.

Another thing is its a factory barrel from Para and being so should run with factory length ammo assuming thats all us good warranty abidding shooters are going to use right? So if its going to feed the short loads fine I'm fine with that. That just means I don't have to load 2 diffrent lengths for my XD and Para.

Now if there is some benefit to loading long or if somebody can tell me why they load long to cure X problem I'm all happy to listen. If its because the loads are stopping at the feed ramp then thats not my problem.

[45gunner]

It has never nose dived. Its always nose up into the top of the chamber or failed to completely go into battery.

The only time its failed to go into battery with out nosing up into the chamber is on the long loads.

There is nothing weak about any of the springs they are fairly new. It has also always done this from day one.

I honestly believe that part of it was solved when we beveled the extractor. The other part I think is do to a tight throat. If thats the case I think the problem is solved, time will tell.

You never answered Dave_c or Hsmith question about the bullets hitting the rifling. Do any of the rounds you load hit the rifling.

Do this with the BARREL REMOVED FROM THE GUN. Drop a factory round into the barrel. Note where the primer end of the brass is relative to the barrel.

Using your reloader make one round with a berry bullet. Measure it's dimensions and write it down. Drop it in the chamber of you barrel that you have taken out of the gun. If the pimer end of the brass is in the same position as the factory round then load fifty rounds with the Bear Creek bullets. Measure the lenght of every one with a Caliper. Do the dimensons vary. If so something is out of wack with your reloading. Are the pimers always fully seating. Is somthing loose on you press that is causing erratic reloading or the bullet to load off center.

If you don't polish your brass then it can leave some crud on the lip that causes it to chamber somtimes.

If you have a tight throat and you are reloading factory rounds and the bullets are are manufactured to the exact same dimensions and you are loading all of then the same length every time then they cannot mysteriouly not chamber somtimes due to a tight throat.

[want2race]

I think the initial issue was the extractor and feed ramp. Fixed that for now. Factory length loads feed in fine now.

Now the issue is long loads. Since it didn't do it very often, my unexpert opinion is that the diameter of the moly coated bullets is not held to as tight a tolerance as, say jacketed bullets.

See pic.

[HSMITH]

Boys and girls, that is a tight throat in the pictures combined with a bullet seated slightly off axis. A Redding Competition seating die will help some, but I really don't think it will solve the problem.

If you want to run that bullet loaded long you need to have the barrel throated for them. It really is that simple.

[steel1212]

Boys and girls, that is a tight throat in the pictures combined with a bullet seated slightly off axis. A Redding Competition seating die will help some, but I really don't think it will solve the problem.

If you want to run that bullet loaded long you need to have the barrel throated for them. It really is that simple.

I think the pic may be a little misleading if its off axis, may be though. I've thought about the redding die also. For now if its going to run factory length rounds ok then like the man said, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[45gunner]

I think the initial issue was the extractor and feed ramp. Fixed that for now. Factory length loads feed in fine now.

Now the issue is long loads. Since it didn't do it very often, my unexpert opinion is that the diameter of the moly coated bullets is not held to as tight a tolerance as, say jacketed bullets.

See pic.

Is this Bullet out of round?

Get someone in your shooting club to loan you a few Mntanna Golds. I am pretty sure if this is the problem I would have seen it since this is all I use.

Have you cleaned your seating die out?

If Montanna gold exhibit the same problem them I totally agree with HSMITH.

If your shooting in a match its important to chamber check all of your bullets to prevent this happending in a match. Use this type of bullet for target practice.

Most IPSC shooter load long because longer rounds usually will feed more relibabibly. Assuming of course that a barrel does not to be throated to do so.

I load long for my Para 16-40 and have almost never had a misfeed. But it will shoot loads in which the OAL is 1.135, my Glock Load.

If you find a length that works well leave it be.

Edited April 16, 2007 by 45gunner

[HSMITH]

Montana bullets won't show the mark, they are .400" on the button and will fit the throat he has in his barrel as long as they are seated reasonably straight. The .401" or slightly bigger coated bullets are just too big for the throat.

[45gunner]

Montana bullets won't show the mark, they are .400" on the button and will fit the throat he has in his barrel as long as they are seated reasonably straight. The .401" or slightly bigger coated bullets are just too big for the throat.

Even with a dye marker?

Do barrels from the same manufacture general have tolerances this erratic?

I have got myself into discussion similar to this before to find out the manufacturing standards are sometimes not very tight. One person would have a good experience with a product with the right dimensions while the other would be very close to the minimum tolerance and have a bad experience.

One person would claim the other persons information was wrong while the other would claim his info was right.

Turns out they were both right but the manufacturing tolerances were at fault.

If this is the case then my apologies for what I perceived as incorrect information from some forum members.

Edited April 16, 2007 by 45gunner

[HSMITH]

The mark in the picture is basically a ring around the bullet from the end of the chamber/start of the throat. The Montana will fit into the throat, it may or may not hit the rifling but the mark he has now won't show on a good jacketed bullet.

[JFD]

Based on what I've seen with cast bullets in .40 and .45, I agree with HSMITH.

Mine has a standard extractor, but my P16-40 LTD will handle 1.135 to 1.122 ammo without a hitch. I only load to 1.120 now because it's a bit more accurate. If it wasn't for that I'd load everything to 1.135 and not have to deal with "Para Only" and "Glock Only" .40 ammo.

I've fired at least 40K of 1.120 Rainier Major PF 180 HPs and fired 5K of 1.135 Precision Delta Major PF 180 FPs when my wife took over my G35 and decided minor ammo was the way to go.

Unfortunately we do have to deal with those ugly manufacturing tolerances that can make some guns finicky.

[steel1212]

Based on what I've seen with cast bullets in .40 and .45, I agree with HSMITH.

Mine has a standard extractor, but my P16-40 LTD will handle 1.135 to 1.122 ammo without a hitch. I only load to 1.120 now because it's a bit more accurate. If it wasn't for that I'd load everything to 1.135 and not have to deal with "Para Only" and "Glock Only" .40 ammo.

I've fired at least 40K of 1.120 Rainier Major PF 180 HPs and fired 5K of 1.135 Precision Delta Major PF 180 FPs when my wife took over my G35 and decided minor ammo was the way to go.

Unfortunately we do have to deal with those ugly manufacturing tolerances that can make some guns finicky.

Do you mean 1.20-1.220?

Pretty much everybody that shoots around us uses zeros, berrys, moly, or lead of some sort.

Montana bullets won't show the mark, they are .400" on the button and will fit the throat he has in his barrel as long as they are seated reasonably straight. The .401" or slightly bigger coated bullets are just too big for the throat.

If thats the case then wouldn't all the bullets catch on the throat when I'm shooting? I mean those where the only 2 that stopped it but there where some that I felt the slide have to push into battery while shooting but not all of them. If its the throat it must be right at the same size or a touch smaller and if the bullets come in a touch bigger then it screws things up.

[HSMITH]

Corey, the slide comes into battery with some force, I would bet it is shaving some of them and going fully into battery. The ones that are seated straight are probably functioning OK for the most part, the ones that are a little more off axis drag a little more and hold it out of battery.

[want2race]

I load the same bullets into winchester x1 fired brass with a SDB and there is a slight bulge on one side of the case neck after it's loaded. I've noticed this on nearly all rounds loaded. They work and for the price I deal with it.

The bullets measure no more than .401 all the way around, however one of the pictured bullets dropped to .4005 at one point.

The ring on the bullet coincides with the bulge. It's not that it's crooked, it's just off center. Like the bullet is larger than the case it goes in and as it squeezes in it bulges one side of the case out a smidgen.

[wide45]

I load the same bullets into winchester x1 fired brass with a SDB and there is a slight bulge on one side of the case neck after it's loaded. I've noticed this on nearly all rounds loaded. They work and for the price I deal with it.

The bullets measure no more than .401 all the way around, however one of the pictured bullets dropped to .4005 at one point.

The ring on the bullet coincides with the bulge. It's not that it's crooked, it's just off center. Like the bullet is larger than the case it goes in and as it squeezes in it bulges one side of the case out a smidgen.

Dillon seater die?

I went to another brand and got rid of the bulgies.

edit--

I should read better, SDB...

Do you have a round nose plug for the seating station?

Edited April 19, 2007 by wide45

[steel1212]

Mine is the TC seater.

[wide45]

Mine is the TC seater.

It isn't working for you.

The regular Dillon seater comes with 2 different size cavities for TC shaped bullets. Niether cavity worked well. I now use a RCBS seater with a round nose plug. Centers any bullet shape.

Do you have a different seater plug to try in the SDB?

edit-

Again with the not reading...

steel1212 is not the one with the SDB...

Edited April 19, 2007 by wide45

[steel1212]

I don't have a SDB want2race does. I have a Lee turret with RCBS dies.