38 Super Trying To Get To Major Pf

[slidelock1]

I have a Limcat 38 super with a short barrel ( approx. 4 - 4 1/2") with a comp and three poppel holes in the barrel. I loaded 8.1gr 7625 with a small rifle primer behind a Zero 125jhp and got to major pf, but just barely. The proplem was that the recoil drove the red dot off the target.

I then tried AA7 with a small rifle primer, same bullet, seated 1.25". I started at 8.6gr (good group, red dot stayed on target) but it was slow. I increased the powder in .2gr increments until I got to 10.8gr. and the primer started to show some signs of flattening, BUT, the recoil was straight back and the dot stayed near the target. The pf was approx. 166. I will add .1gr more but at this point I am getting concerned. I would like to reach major with a little more buffer than above. I'm thinking I may have to go to 11 gr. AA7 to reach a pf of 168 +/-.

Almost all of you know more about this than I do. Does anybody have any comments, criticisms, or ideas about this?

BTW, I was on this forum earlier with a similar question but now I have more data.

Thanks

[Mick]

What barrel do you have?

Wil Schuemann said AA7 was too abrasive for his barrels when loaded to major and caused excessive barrel wear. When I shot Super at the old power factor I used SR4756 which is a tad slower than 7625. These days the Vihta Vouri powders are a good choice

like n350, 3n37 or 3n38. I think SV influences their gun owners to use 3n38 with the new IMM guns that have a bunch of holes. The new shorter barrels (less than the 5" guns we shot years ago) obviously have less burn time especially with the holes. The 7625 loads I've seen are soft and flat but the pressure is high. When I uesd the 4756, I put the seating die right after the powder drop on my 1050 because full case of powder spilled easily.

This is progress! Shorter guns, titanium comps, Poppel holes and high pressure!

Try the VV powders...

[38superman]

It takes a lot of slow burning powder to make major in a short barreled 38 Super without generating excessive pressure.

Even a gun with a comp and poppleholes is going to generate some mild recoil.

It is generally acceptable to me if the dot bounces as long as it stays visible.

If you can completely eliminate dot movement and still make major, I want your magic formula.

I have a Brazos Pro Sx and get good results with the Zero 125 and 10.5 gr of N105.

This load will make major with no signs of high pressure at all.

The drawback to N105 is that it's pricy and getting harder to find.

If you can get good results with SR4756 it will be cheaper.

Tony

Edited March 17, 2007 by tlshores

[Jaxshooter]

I have a short barreled SV with 3 holes in the barrel. I use 10.4 gr VV 3N38 with a Zero 125gr JHP, WSRP loaded to 1.250 OAL. I tried 7625 and was way over on pressure when it got to Major PF. The 3N38 laod keeps the dot in the lens and tracks straight up and down.

Make sure you work up to this load if you try it.

[nhglyn]

I too have a Brazos Pro Sx and use 10.4 grs of VV N105 with a 125 gr HAP to make 170.5 pf. As mentioned, pricey and getting harder to find. But, to me, it's worth it.

[9x21]

9.1 HS-6

plenty in Bedell shorty ,same 125 zero, WSR, 1.245 OVAL

From my Buddy Lopez!

[G-ManBart]

The drawback to N105 is that it's pricy and getting harder to find.

In a "what I like post" someone mentioned that Hodgen is going to distribute/import (not sure which) VV powders...woo hoo. They'll still be pricey, I'm sure, but maybe more available. N105 was one of the powders mentioned.

[XRe]

I posted some info on load development I did w/ my Open gun here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=31666&hl= - I found it very useful to work several loads up to the same PF (170, in my case) and compare them.

In your case, it sounds like you're having an interesting time just getting to Major, much less 170. Short barrel with holes is going to require slower powders to do it safely, as others have said. 4756 is about the only cheap option. AA7 flattening primers at 166PF is not good mojo. AA9 might work out, maybe - I haven't tried it.

I would bet that 3N38 is likely to be nice in your gun. Dense, and slowish. N105 is extremely safe - but you may not be able to fit enough in a case with your arrangement. Never know until you try, though - I could make 170 PF w/ N105 and 115s in my gun, and still had room for 2 more grains of powder, so.... N350 is worth trying, as well.

Short guns w/ holes limit your powder choices - one of the factors of dealing with that arrangement....

What does Johnny Lim recommend? Have you asked him???

Finally - I would submit that flat may not be an ultimate goal in load development. Instead, find a lot that allows the gun to cycle consistently straight up and down. Some guns will have specific loads that allow that better than others, some guns don't care. You can time a gun that's consistent. If you can get that and get flat, that's cool and is icing on the cake...

[George]

10.8 is pretty much a full case of AA7 under a 125. 11.0 may do the trick, but only 166 with 10.8 also worries me. I get 170+ from 10.8 AA7 under a 124 (OAL = 1.250").

HS-6 may just do it for ya' though. Try starting in the low 8's and see where it goes..

[turbocomp38s]

Try 4756 at 9.0 grains. I'm using 124 grain and getting around 172 power factor with no dot movement at all. May be lesser with your 125 grains to around 8.8 or 8.9 grains. Good powder and cheaper but a little bit dirty but it works for my limcat.

[sargenv]

You may also want to give Hodgdon Longshot a try. I load a heavier bullet than most, but with a 135 and 7.5 of Longshot, it only fills the case maybe 65-70%. I've loaded as much as 8.1 of Longshot with the 135 and gotten 1335 fps. As I recall, it was still only about 75% full. With a shorter bullet, you could probably easily make Major with it, even in a ported gun. I know, unported to ported is apples to oranges, but it may work.

Vince

Edited March 19, 2007 by sargenv

[joecichlid]

I second Longshot. I have been using it for years in my .45 ACP and right at a year in my .38 Super. 7.5 with a 124 grain bullet make major out of my gun with NO pressure signs at all. The powder is pretty easy to come by and through Powder Valley $105 plus shipping for an 8 pound can.

Joe W.

You may also want to give Hodgdon Longshot a try. I load a heavier bullet than most, but with a 135 and 7.5 of Longshot, it only fills the case maybe 65-70%. I've loaded as much as 8.1 of Longshot with the 135 and gotten 1335 fps. As I recall, it was still only about 75% full. With a shorter bullet, you could probably easily make Major with it, even in a ported gun. I know, unported to ported is apples to oranges, but it may work.

Vince

[slidelock1]

I have just e-mailed Wil Schuemann regarding AA-7 powder and I will quote from his reply: "It is true that fifteen years ago one batch of AA7 was unusually abrasive and that did in some barrels. More recently, a batch of Hodgdon's HS-7 had the same problem. Hodgdon, instead of correcting the problem and moving on, as Accurate did, decided (probably wisely) to discontinue HS-7. Now Hodgdon's Longshot does what HS-7 used to do." There is a little more information but this is the crux of his reply to me.

Wil also stated in his e-mail that he has shot, "hundreds of pounds of

AA-7 through my open gun".

So, if the nasty rumors about AA-7 and its abrasiveness on barrels is still running all over the pistol forums out there, this should put those rumors to rest.

Thank you Wil, and thank you guys for all your help in this matter.

[joecichlid]

Hodgdon's Longshot does what HS-7 used to do. I am not quite sure what you mean by that. Is it hard on barrels? I haven't noticed any extra wear on my barrles.

Joe W.

[ShooterSteve]

I shoot VV340 in my super. I shoot HAP 124gr over 7.1 gr of 340. This makes the new power factor, but I have shot a larger charge with no pressure signs when the PF was 175. I have also used 3N37 in the past and liked it a lot, but I shot it up and got a super deal on the 340 so I switched with no problems or complaints. A long time back I used to shoot Win Action Pistol, and I wish they still made that powder. My gun is set up a little different as it is a couple years old with a 5.5" barrel and an older style comp. I can't see upgrading, because to be honest, I can't shoot up to this guns potential, so I can't justify dropping a couple grand in a new rig. When I can out run the gun (yea right) I will upgrade.

[gotcha]

I have a Limcat 38 super with a short barrel ( approx. 4 - 4 1/2") with a comp and three poppel holes in the barrel. I loaded 8.1gr 7625 with a small rifle primer behind a Zero 125jhp and got to major pf, but just barely. The proplem was that the recoil drove the red dot off the target.

I then tried AA7 with a small rifle primer, same bullet, seated 1.25". I started at 8.6gr (good group, red dot stayed on target) but it was slow. I increased the powder in .2gr increments until I got to 10.8gr. and the primer started to show some signs of flattening, BUT, the recoil was straight back and the dot stayed near the target. The pf was approx. 166. I will add .1gr more but at this point I am getting concerned. I would like to reach major with a little more buffer than above. I'm thinking I may have to go to 11 gr. AA7 to reach a pf of 168 +/-.

Almost all of you know more about this than I do. Does anybody have any comments, criticisms, or ideas about this?

BTW, I was on this forum earlier with a similar question but now I have more data.

Thanks

I know exactley what you are talking about. I have a Brazos Shorty Pro SX. It is hard to find 3N38 and N105.

This is what i came up with......BTW no signs of pressure

Final load data if anyone is interested. 9.1 grains of Longshot 121 grain MGIFP OAL 1.235 with a PF of 174. I know it is a little much but it shoots soft and with very light dot rise and burns pretty damn clean. I was actually surprised at how well it felt and the accuracy was great. I think i like it more than 3N38!!

Edited March 21, 2007 by gotcha

[joecichlid]

Shooter Steve, I am in the same boat. My gun shoots like a dream although it may outdated by most standards and I am not going to be replacing it any time soon.

This is my latest gun, well new to me anyway. STI built back in 1994 by Dawson when he was still working for them. Old school comp with a lightened bull barrel and lightened slide. It was set up with iron sights but converted for a Doctor later on. When I got the gun it had less than 1000 rounds through it and wasn't really broken in. In the last year I have run about 5000 rounds through it and it is running like a champ. Since getting the gun I have had a C-More mount installed, an extended slide release and a new ejector as the old one had been replaced by a hack gunsmith and was not fitted correctly. The only thing left is the gun could use a new extractor but is running fine on the one that is in there now.

Joe W.

[ShooterSteve]

Joe, take your gun and make it silver and you will almost be looking at my gun. Add one more port on each side of the comp, knock off the spattershield on the c-more mount, and change the the mag well to a "black hole" and that is it. Very similar. I don't know if you have ever seen a black hole mag well, but they are huge. I like it because it makes my hand fit the grip exactly. If I'm off a little on my draw, it actually forces me to shift to the proper grip. They aren't sold any more. I don't know why, as I really like mine, but I may be in the minority.

Sweet rig you have there!!

[joecichlid]

Thank you. I haven't played around much with different mag wells yet but with the STI stainless one I have on there the gun just feels right, at least for me. Old school or not, I love how the gun shoots and it is paid for so you won't hear me gripe about it. LOL

Joe W.

[turbocomp38s]

my setup is the same as yours, but with only two poppleholes and three ports/holes on the comp (tamer comp). I'm using 4756 powder and loading at 9.0 grains with overall length of 1.240-1.245 and also using delta precision bullets 124 grains. PF is between 168 to 170 with barely red dot moving at all. This setup was recommended by Brazos and just worked fine for me. Hope this helps.