LSP972 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Okay; you guys probably have more shooting/loading experience than the crew at my usual haunts. I've gotten back into shooting/reloading; mainly .45 ACP for me, but the wife has gone nuts and is burning through my stash of 9mm like candy. I'll be ordering the conversion parts for my 550 soon... "Conventional wisdom" says NOT to use lead bullets in polygonal rifling (Glocks, in this case). I tried some Precision moly bullets in my HK USPc .45, and saw enough residue to alarm me. But it may have been nothing to worry about. It did come right out with one pass of the brush. I can get .356 Precision moly bullets locally for a good price. I plan to use a moderate charge of 231, tailored to the bullet weight. Both 9mm Glocks are well shot-in. I am NOT concerned with any power factor, meeting a competition stipulation, etc. This will be a casual practice/plinking load that I can crank out lots of on the 550. So, what's the story on Precision moly bullets, driven by 231, in a Glock 9mm barrel???? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Okay; you guys probably have more shooting/loading experience than the crew at my usual haunts.I've gotten back into shooting/reloading; mainly .45 ACP for me, but the wife has gone nuts and is burning through my stash of 9mm like candy. I'll be ordering the conversion parts for my 550 soon... "Conventional wisdom" says NOT to use lead bullets in polygonal rifling (Glocks, in this case). I tried some Precision moly bullets in my HK USPc .45, and saw enough residue to alarm me. But it may have been nothing to worry about. It did come right out with one pass of the brush. I can get .356 Precision moly bullets locally for a good price. I plan to use a moderate charge of 231, tailored to the bullet weight. Both 9mm Glocks are well shot-in. I am NOT concerned with any power factor, meeting a competition stipulation, etc. This will be a casual practice/plinking load that I can crank out lots of on the 550. So, what's the story on Precision moly bullets, driven by 231, in a Glock 9mm barrel???? . No manufacturer of polygonal barreled pistols recommends the use of lead bullets in their guns. The theory, as I understand it, is that the lead is stripped from the bullet by the rifling in such guns and left in the barrel. Not only does accuracy deteriorate as shooting goes on, but it supposedly creates an unsafe condition as pressure builds up, round after round, because of the lead accumulation in the barrel. For about the same price, copper plated bullets like Berry's and Rainer can be had that will shoot safely and more accurately out of a polygonal barrel. Copper plated bullets can be purchased on the web by going to either the Berry's site at http://www.berrysmfg.com/categories/49-0.php or to MidwayUSA or other places for the Rainer bullets. I think you would probably be better off with something like those than risking problems with lead in your polygonal barreled pistols. Alternately, if you are unwilling to change bullets, then aftermarket standard rifled "drop in" barrels can be had for Glocks at reasonable prices and will still deliver very good or even better accuracy and reliability than the factory Glock barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You could also scrub the bore on a regular basis. One of the guys at our club has shot his G-17 for years in Production, using lead bullets. He pokes a brush down the bore between stages, and gives it a scrubbing after each match and practice session. The 9mm has a lot more margin of safety than the .40 in this situaiton, which is marginal at best. Unless you can get them cheaper than dirt, lead loses out to plate for maintenance ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I've used many thousands of the moly-encapsulated bullets (Bear Creek and Masterblaster) in Glock barrels with no problems. Masterblaster's website specifically states that their bullets can be used in Glocks and other barrels with polygonal-rifling. Fine sooty residue wipes out with one pass of a boresnake. No leading so far. Found the direct quote at Masterblasters website Q: Can I use your bullets in my Glock pistol or any other pistol with polygonal rifling?? A: Yes, the polymer coating prevents lead buildup this is the source of the problem with polygonal barrels and lead bullets. We have been using our bullets in Glock pistols for the past several years and have won a number of IPSC and IDPA championships with this combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) I once put a little over 1,000 rounds of lead bullets through a G34 just to see if the Internet dribble about lead in Glocks was true or not. There was just the slightest trace of leading. Two passes with a Bore Snake and it was gone. My wife and I have put over 30,000 lead bullets through our Glocks. No, we don't clean them every 100 rounds like the latest Internet dribble on Glocktalk suggests. Where did that nonsense come from anyway? My 9mm load is 3.5 gr of Titegroup behind a 125 gr Valiant bullet. Goes a little over 1050 fps. Two things are important with lead bullets. Does not matter if the barrel is poly rifled or conventional. 1. Proper bullet diameter. 2. Bullet hardness. An undersized bullet will lead like crazy. My current cost on 125 gr 9mm lead bullets is $21 per 1000. Edited February 1, 2007 by Joe D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP972 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Unless you can get them cheaper than dirt, lead loses out to plate for maintenance ease. Yeah, I know about plated; been shooting Rainiers in my HK USPc. But these Precision moly bullets can be had locally at a VERY attractive price; and freight costs being what they are these days... I keep hearing about guys who shoot tons of lead through their polygonal barrels with no issues; like your club member. Guess it will be no big deal as long as I keep an eye on it... BTW, along with my resurgence of interest in shooting/loading in general, I also got back into 1911's after too many years of not owning one. I was killing time in Barnes & Noble, saw both editions of your 1911 book, and bought them. Excellent reference works; it was money well spent. Any plans for Volume III? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP972 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Thanks, Joe & big kahuna. I'm going to buy a 500-count box and see how they do. Any suggestions for a moderate-power practice/plinking load using mixed brass, WSP primers, 231, and 125gr moly bullets? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) After we all quit shooting .45's the only guns I saw blow up were Glock 22s. They were using all lead bullets and didn't have the advantage of powders that we have now. Haven't seen one blow up in a while so don't know if all went to KKM barrels, its the new powders or all went to jacketed bullets. I wouldn't do it but I also wouldn't clean my barrel between stages with any gun. I find stuff like that distracting and I am usually helping tape and stuff. Edited February 1, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 One point no one has brought up yet is that Polygon barrels are significantly tighter than conventionally rifled barrels. I suggest you read the book"the Glock in Competition", 2nd edition by Robin taylor. there is an entire chapter devoted to why Glocks blow up with lead bullets, written by someone that had to work up the information for use in court trials. NO LEAD IN POLYGONAL BARRELS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 It is important to distinguish between "plain Lead' bullets and Coated ones. I HAVE shot "plain lead" hardcast in my Glock.... with no problems in any normal shooting session (2-300 rounds).. yes.. there was some leading... but not much, and as others have attested it came out real easy. I'd say.. "It works...... BUT!" I have put several hundred COATED lead pills through that same Glock evey week for the last 4 months (since I got it basically) and there has NEVER been any issues... Here in Australia the price of plated/jacketed really doesn't leave much option! Thank God for the coated projectiles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 From what I have seen shooting Precision moly last year they are very close to copper plated bullets for barrel residue. I haven't tried the drill & heat procedure shown on their web site but it is impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP972 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Well, it all became moot. She saw how much I like my USPc, and she now is the proud owner of a P2000. I bought 10K 115 FMJs and 10K 230 FMJs from Precision Delta. KB'ing one of our Glocks would be no big loss (assuming no injury, of course). But I'd be a tad annoyed if I damaged those HKs. So I ponied up the bucks for FMJs. No sense in tempting Fate... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 +1 to checking the review in "The Glock in Competition", which, besides Glock's own warnings in their owner manuals, seems to be the most definitive source of information on the subject. Bottom line, narrowing of the bore with a buildup of any material, visible or not, will increase pressure, which can be indirectly measured by seeing an increase in velocity with each subsequent round through the barrel. This is what this guy found in the testing reported in Taylor's book. The increase was rapid, predictable and potentially dangerous. He actually got barrels to KB predictably in his tests. FWIW, I decided to test coated Precision bullets through my G35 barrel. Your own results may vary, but within 50 rounds I got a small but real progressive increase in velocity with ammo loaded to minor PF velocities, starting with a clean barrel, and which went away with a few passes with a phosphor bronze bore brush. What I took away is that if you want (at your own risk, of course) to shoot through a polygonally rifled bbl any round that might leave significant residue, lead, polymer or whatever, religious cleaning of the barrel is a must (though I can't say how often to brush or how well it will work for anything other the the Precision bullets I used). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Ran lead 147's in a 17L for years with no issues and without obsessive cleaning. I used 147's to keep velocity under 1100fps (rough point at which leading really starts happening). I also used a very hard bullet (Billy Bullets hard cast) that was specially sized to .356 instead of .357 like a lot of .38/9x19 style lead stuff is typically sized to. Maintenance was not greater than I do with pistols that shoot jacketed, just a little more elbow grease was all it took. I also used a medium charge of slowish powder to not kick the bullet too hard at first thereby causing excessive obduration and increased lead stripping. When loaded to similar velocity, small charges of fast powders will lead more than larger charges of slow powder will because the bullet is getting stuffed down the barrel leade much more gently with the slow powder. Done right, lead in poly bbls is A-OK. Done wrong, yes you can have various issues. Heck, I ran hard cast Billy Bullets sized to .357 at 1200fps+ in my .38 Souper for years with no problems in a standard rifled barsto bbl. Whole lotta' lead buildup in the comp though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azone41 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I have seen two glock 22s go boom using lead bullets. I wont use them in a Glock....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubbicatt Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) I have seen lead build up in the grooves of a non polygonal barrel in my CZ Tactical Sport .40 cal. This using Master Blaster Bullets. It eventually brushes out. Even so, it is much easier to clean up after jacketed bullets. I have not tried these rounds in my Glock 35. Edited April 21, 2007 by stubbicatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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