BDH Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Multiple choice question follows..... I attend USPSA matches because: a) I intend to beat all comers. Winning is my only goal, and I intend to be the next World (US, Region, Club, Neighborhood) Champion..... I love shooting sports and the people around them. I want to do my best, but have fun just being a part of the event..... c) I am trying to escape, and getting away on the weekend helps....... d) I compete to cash in on the prize table.... e) I support the 2nd Amendment, and want to express it by putting rounds down range... f) I have an empty wall that I want to fill with plaques.... g) Other, other, other..... There are a thousand reasons why people shoot firearms, and 'most' of them are valid. The reason I posted this is that I am trying to better understand why people shoot USPSA matches, so we can better tailor the matches to attract more competitors, and if they show up to a match.... to keep them coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I truely like the "free-style" aspect of USPSA. Every stage is a different challenge...and requires a different set of skills. I like going to the matches and learning...there always seems to be a new way to solve a problem...a technique that I have over-looked... I counldn't care less about a prize table. It would be nice to have some way to off-set the cost of shooting...but I just want to shoot (as cheaply as possible). I like good stage design (equal for every shooter, and challenging at every level). I always hope to shoot my best...and I hope that the competion does the same. I like an environment that promotes the best of every shooter. (Good RO's, stage design, and match management). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 A Sorry I could not resist. Although, I like to compete, to win and to strive for perfection. Those few times I have touched it has been so addictive that I am hooked. I enjoy the friendships also. In fact the social part has become a larger part of my attendance. The guy in me really gets into the mechanics of guns and stuff( OO OO Ahh Ahh Tool Man Tim impression). I can't bear any more of my soul because I'll embarass myself or realize I could have owned a 40 ft cigarette boat for the money I have spent on IPSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I enjoy looking and (hopefully) learning. I'm naturally a very competitive person. I have a BURNING desire to be the next Rob Leatham. I love the feeling of controlling an explosion in my hands. Comaraderie. Shooting is something you could be doing your entire life and still learn every time you go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Mostly B with some E and even some C thrown in for good measure. There are some aspects of A as well but generally only in so far as pushing myself to see how good I can get. Then there is just plain old addiction to guns/shooting. Definately signs of that. Cheers! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 Okay, so like I said earlier.... lots of reaons. We like the challenge, we like to learn, we like the people, we like the mechanics, we like to compete. I think that most people who have shot this sport more than once feel some of these things, and generally come back. The next question is how do we get the untold number of people who would also like many/most of these things out to shoot with us just that once, so we can get them hooked? I realize that this is an age old problem with no easy answer, but I sure would like our average club match attendence to double..... I'd like to see all the major matches full..... I'd like to see the new matches like the Buckeye Blast fill within a week of the ad hitting Front Sight. Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I sure would like to see USPSA grow to the next level, expecially since we are under a pro-gun administration right now, and not being hammered on the nightly news about how evil guns are, etc........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Brian So do I. In fact I am taking so steps to help that growth happen. Be afraid be very afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 BDH, here is what I did at our club to increase the number of shooter. I did some groundwork and found that the biggest problem is intimidation. A lot of “US GUYS“ don’t like to make fools of ourselves. They felt to intimidated to shoot in a match the first time they tried IPSC. So this last summer every other Friday evening I held a informal practice where we would shoot drills for the first hour or so and then set up a stage and run them through. The first Friday evening I had six new shooters that I had never seen. We had two practices before the next match, by the end of the second practice all six shooters were primed and pumped for the next match. Those first six are now regular match attendees. By the end of the summer I had increased our core group by 19 shooters. This is what worked at our club, you might give it some thought. I know that I'm doing it again this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 ... ranting drift mode Quote: from BDH on 5:27 am on Jan. 17, 2003 Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I sure would like to see USPSA grow to the next level, expecially since we are under a pro-gun administration right now, and not being hammered on the nightly news about how evil guns are, etc........ The Bush Admin...can't really control what the individual states do....look at California. We can't nuy new frames and new race guns are almost out of the picture. At our club we get 3 or four new shooters every month... maybe 1 sticks around for the next 3. I think the cost has a lot to do with it and the inabilty to get race guns in our state. A new shooter show up with his glock or single stack and shoots a few matches. He spends 40 bucks on ammo and 20 on a match fee for a few weeks.. He then realizes that he should spend 500 bucks on a new reloader and suplies. He then ponders the idea of a race gun rig,(which he probalby wont be albe to get easily), to play with the big boys. Fianlly he realizes that this IS expesnive and gets discouraged. ... ranting drift off I like USPSA matches because of the fun, competition, and chanlenges. The biggest reason however is the Friends....trophys are nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 I wish would would spend more effort keeping the members we do have. It seems like we lose more shooters than we gain but we worry more about how to get new prospects. Why have we lost so many to IDPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 I am about 75% B and 25% A. I just enjoy going out and shooting. Of course when I do well it is even better. I don't want any reward other than seeing how well I do against the other shooters who were there that day. If I win a match against a bunch of people who never held a gun before it is not as rewarding as placing well against really good shooters. So I am not D. Do you want a trophy?? I have 3 boxes of 2nd & 3rd places in the basement I will give you. I keep all the Firsts. As far as keeping shooters. Does anybody actually know how many shooters switched from USPSA to IDPA? I switched because all the local clubs switched. Since Rayners opened I can shoot both. I think many people think they can get into IDPA cheaper. USPSA really needs to promote Production. That is where they can increase the numbers. It is promoted now as a place for beginners. It needs to be as important as any other division in USPSA. How many people come out to shoot a USPSA match and never come back? How many people never come out to shoot a USPSA match because they think they need expensive equipment? One local IDPA shooter who had competed in CDP with a 45 carrying a giant range bag with ammo, spare gun etc. recently switched to a Beretta. Now he carries one of those 100 packs of cheap ammo from Wally World. In another thread ego was talked about. I think that is a big part. Ken Hackathorn once said in a group of shooters: " We are all Alpha Males here. Everybody wants to be in charge." I think the same is true about coming out to shoot. If you can't be the top dog in shooting they will go to something else where they can be the Alpha Male. Even if it is just sitting on the couch at home. Brian said we must have "egolessness" to shoot well. I agree. Of course I agree with Brian. Another of my pet peeves is stage design. Follow the freaking rules people. It says no more than 8 shots required from a shooting position. I guess I got a little windy didn't I? Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 I want to shoot my absolute best, and see how that compares with others who did the same. Then I want to do better next time. I also like hangin' out in the sun, telling dirty jokes ad ribbin' my buddies when they screw up. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted January 18, 2003 Author Share Posted January 18, 2003 Quote: from Steve Anderson on 10:53 am on Jan. 18, 2003 I also like hangin' out in the sun, telling dirty jokes ad ribbin' my buddies when they screw up. Steve, you bring out a great point, and it made me laugh out loud! Yep, all of those things are also completely valid. A couple other comments.......... Shipster, I like the idea of the 'Friday Practice Sessions', but did you have people sign up in advance? I'd hate to go down to the range, set up, and then no one show up. Heck, if no one showed up, I might even be forced to practice or something like that Erik, I realize that the individual States can still screw with us, even though we have a Pro (or neutral) gun admin in DC. I guess my point was more that right now, we don't have all kinds of anti-gun stuff coming across the nightly news. I'm sure some of that anti-gun stuff in the past, probably discouraged people who otherwise might be thinking that maybe they would like to at least try the shooting sports. Other comments..... yes, I agree that all of us need to push the Production division, and I agree that we need to keep existing shooters. However, it seems that if we can get someone out the first time, and get them back a few more times, then they normally keep coming back. I think that at least at our club, we probably need to focus more on recruiting, than maintaining, as that seems to take care of itself. Bill, as for stage design, yes I agree. I am probably not holding up my share of the bargin for our club, because I generally don't do the stage designs. We have several people that have been putting stages together for years, so they usually handle it. However, sometimes they will send them to me, and I can correct the rules violations, etc. Also, since I am always out for match set-up (unless I am off to a big match), I normally walk all the stages once they are set up, and look for the problems. Of course, our club is fortunate to have several certified RO's, and also a couple of CRO's. Many clubs probably don't have that luxary, so I'm not sure how to fix the stage design issues there. Talk about windy!! See ya.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 BDH, Thanks for starting this thread! 17 years ago I shot with a really cool group of guys. We shot plates and bowling pins mostly. Then the club started drifting toward BR-50 matches and benchrest stuff. Action pistol games went by the wayside. I left the club in 1992, after joining UPSPA and began to travel to statewide and regional tournaments. A couple of months ago, some of the old crew started asking me about starting up the pistol matches again. Last Monday night I went to a meeting where there were several grey haired guys, women of all ages, and people who own guns but never shoot them. Most of them don't know me from Adam. But they came to listen because all they want to do is have fun and learn to shoot better. I couldn't refuse! So, on Feb. 8th, we are having the first "real" pistol match here in probably 10 years. I'm going to set up an IDPA style stage, and USPSA style stage, and two steel stages. I'm going to make it very "equipment neutral". I don't know what everyone is going to like best. Of course I'll try to gently steer them to USPSA, but whatever they want to do, we will do. This club did have a pistol match a few years ago. The club pres, a friend of mine, called to invite me to come watch, "but don't bring a gun." "The last time you showed up at one of our matches, you won all the prizes. We just want to give somebody who doesn't shoot all the time a chance to win something." That gave me a pretty strong hint about why people don't stay with it. (a dim light came on in my brain) Local club matches don't have to be shot like they are the friggin Area Championships. I know a lot of people will say "if they can't take the competition they should just go some where else." And there is truth in that statement. But it is equally true that they ARE going somewhere else. I'm tired of shooting alone! All my "competitive friends" are 50 miles away. We need to find a way to keep the competition red-hot for the hard core members and still allow those who aren't ready to "let it all hang out" shoot with out getting embarassed or frustrated. The classification system is a good tool for this, but there must be other ideas. We need to emphasize the "social aspect" of local matches. SiG Lady mentioned a club "pot luck" or picnic that everyone really enjoyed. Have club practice days where the upper class shooters mentor the newer ones. Getting whomped by someone you've helped to train isn't any disgrace! It's an honor! We have to open up and share ideas, the way people do here at Brian's forum. There is a lot of good experience to be had in competition. And it isn't all winning. This is just my take, from experiences that I have had. I'm not arguing that we need to "dumb down" the sport at all. We just need to view the new people as the true assests that they are. Help them, mentor them, encourge them, and provide a pleasant social experience to keep them comming back. (then when they get hooked, we can really smoke their a$$e$!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Sam, Good post. Know your customers (and potential customers). Make them feel like they belong. Build a sense of community. Help them grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted January 18, 2003 Author Share Posted January 18, 2003 I concur with Flex, GREAT post!! I think you hit the nail on the head regarding keeping shooters.... it is the social aspect, and each of us helping another. One thing I did decide to do was follow on Shipster's lead..... it will not be a Friday Night practice session, but I will try to get a Saturday (set-up day before our Sunday match) practice day going. Our core shooters are out setting up that day anyway, so why not offer it up, come out a little early, and maybe it happen! I like it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I shoot USPSA so I can shag chicks. (Edited by EricW at 10:05 pm on Jan. 18, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 BDH What I did was ask three of our regular shooters to come out and give me a hand, if any new shooters showed up we would work with them. If no new shooters showed, we had a great practice. Usually there was at least one new shooter every Friday and the previous new shooters continued to show up and practice. It's been a great program for us, and like I said before it's going to continue at our club. I'm almost as excited about the Friday practice shoots to start as I am the monthly shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Shipster, Thanks for the info. The plan I intend to move forward is a practice day on the Saturday before our monthly match. Our core group is out setting up anyway.... I'll just come out early.... we can advertise in the club newsletter.... if people show up, great!! If not, I put some rounds down range, and start to pull out props for our normal match set-up. This is a simple idea, easy to implement, and since you got 19 new shooters in a season.... my goal will be 20. So here's the deal.... I get 19 or fewer, I buy the beers..... but I get 20 or more, and you buy the beers. Deal??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 BDH I do believe that your plan is better. You may end up with some additional help setting up for your match. Our matches are on the first Sat. of the month and only a couple of times did the practice friday fall on the Friday before the match. Good luck. Make mine a Rootbeer and you got a deal. (Edited by Shipster at 3:04 pm on Jan. 22, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Shipster, Beer.... root beer.... whatever! You've got a deal. It looks like I will be attending all four Nationals this year, so I assume out paths will cross somewhere along the line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I compete against myself. I strive to improve my own skill level. I couldn't care less about awards or prize tables. USPSA is strongly active in my section ( Eastern Lakes Section) so finding a match is easy. Plus,the majority of the people you meet are good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 I know it sounds funny and corny, but I shoot USPSA because it's the one thing I actually have control over. That 15 seconds I'm shooting, I feel alive, my body doesn't hurt, my old lady isn't nagging me, the worries of my job don't exist and nothing else matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I shoot "USPSA" matches because I am able to stand away from everyone,waiting for my turn and just think about my shooting.I will pick up the other shooters brass and then stand back and think about the stage.Let me explain what I am talking about.Where I live we have a match once a month at the local gun club.I design a lot of the stages for that match and 99% of the time am the RO for my squad.We also have a match every Thur. night at an indoor range.I am the MD for that match,meaning I do most of the work for that one.So,there are 5 to 6 matches a month that I work my ass off on and neither of them are affiliated with USPSA.So when I go somewhere and shoot a "USPSA" match I just want to shoot,not listen to people whine and gripe or make sure the new shooter doesn't sweep every body.I just want to shoot.So if you see a new face show up at a "USPSA" match in the TN/GA/ALA area and he looks like he wants to be left alone it is likely me.As for affiliating either of those matches the one at the gun club is not my call to make and at the indoor place I have to give half the entry money to the owner and with only 5 or 6 shooters each week there is not enough money in it.So you could say I shoot USPSA matches because I want to be a loner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 Rufus, I hear you loud and clear, and that is actually one of the reasons I tend to work a lot of the matches. When I am on the range, I have to concentrate on one thing, and one thing only. It simply pushes all the other work, and life crap out of my mind! Whiskey, I understand you as well. I'm in a pretty good sized club, but like most things, we don't have a lot of support from people to come out a day early and help us set up the big stages that everyone likes to shoot on match day. Then I almost always end up ROing as well as shooting (and my shooting has suffered for it). So, I can certainly understand you showing up at a match and just concentrating on your shooting. Wait, you actually CONCENTRATE?? Hmmmm, maybe that is part of my problem! Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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