98sr20ve Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have a KAHR TP9. Basicaly a 4 inch, DAO, 8rd, 9mm. I have recently recieved Brians and Sauls books. Been practicing just shooting. Shight picture, accuracy and keeping aware of what I am doing. Speed is just not happening with this gun (and I don't care too much right now). It's like my S+W 686 Revolver. Only so fast I can pull that trigger. Never mind accuracy at 50ft with the DAO is tough. My last match I could not clean the long distance Texas Star. I have been practicing 50ft stuff and think I could now do it. I alsways said I would shoot this gun for a while. I guess I am just frustrated watching my sight picture change as I dry fire this thing and always seeing it move in some fashion. Any thoughts? I can get a new gun if I really wanted to. BUT, I don't want to rush things as I have no clue what I would get, what class I would shoot, I am still so new to the sport with only 2 events under my belt. This is me ccw as well so I want to get good with the thing. I want to stay positive as well. I guess I am just looking for a excuse perhaps and I settled on the DAO trigger as being my excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Pick up a Spartan and start shootin' Single Stack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) yea what zhunter said about Single stack Edited January 8, 2007 by Alan Meek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 If you want to gain proficiency with your carry gun, stay with it. If you want to do better in competition, you may want to change guns. With the Kahr, stay with the dry fire practice, taking special care to not move the sights through the trigger press. With the double action, it may be difficult, but it can be done. Revolver shjooters do it, so it is not an impossible tack. You may also want to investigate having the trigger worked on, making it smoother, if not lighter. It is imperative, in any case, that you accomplish the trigger press without distubing hte sights. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaJoe Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I settled on the DAO trigger as being my excuse. I'll buy that for a dollar. I had a Taurus that looked strikingly familiar to that. Probably had the same 10lb trigger pull. Since it is your ccw gun keep it for that. But buy yourself a different gun for the games. What divisions do you want to shoot? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 I settled on the DAO trigger as being my excuse. I'll buy that for a dollar. I had a Taurus that looked strikingly familiar to that. Probably had the same 10lb trigger pull. Since it is your ccw gun keep it for that. But buy yourself a different gun for the games. What divisions do you want to shoot? Joe I was thinking of something that let me shoot a 45 in both IPDA and USPSA stuff. I never owned a 45, they seem to be "the" gun to shoot for competion. Or I could just get a Glock but I just don't have "the love" for those guns. The kahr has a smooth 7-8lb ish trigger. Don't want to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 When new shooters want to get into USPSA the common advice is to shoot what you already have. This is good advice, we want to get someone hooked on the concept and see how fun things are. If you have a budget in mind let that help you pick out a good pistol for the sport. A world class Production shooting rig (gun, holster, pouches, belt) can be purchased for <$800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 When new shooters want to get into USPSA the common advice is to shoot what you already have. This is good advice, we want to get someone hooked on the concept and see how fun things are. If you have a budget in mind let that help you pick out a good pistol for the sport. Done with that part already A world class Production shooting rig (gun, holster, pouches, belt) can be purchased for <$800. Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Used Glock 34/17, CZ or XD would be much less than that and they are pretty much the gun's used to win Nationals/World Shoot's in last few years. I paid $400 for a new M&P but its too new to be called "World Class" You could go new and still stay below 1K for the whole rig. Remember we are talking Production and 99% is the shooter. Edited January 8, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 A world class Production shooting rig (gun, holster, pouches, belt) can be purchased for <$800. Such as? I'll build out a Glock rig, but most of this could be swapped for a CZ SP-01, Springefield XD, S&W M&P, etc... I'll be fairly conservative price wise, a little bargain shopping will save you a bit more. Glock 17, $500 - Dawson Fiber front and target rear sights, $80 - TruGrip $30 - 3 extra mags, $50 - Reduced power recoil springs $5 - The $0.25 trigger job CR Speed Belt, $50 Bladetech DOH, $50 2 Bladetech double pouches, $36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 A world class Production shooting rig (gun, holster, pouches, belt) can be purchased for <$800. Such as? I'll build out a Glock rig, but most of this could be swapped for a CZ SP-01, Springefield XD, S&W M&P, etc... I'll be fairly conservative price wise, a little bargain shopping will save you a bit more. Glock 17, $500 - Dawson Fiber front and target rear sights, $80 - TruGrip $30 - 3 extra mags, $50 - Reduced power recoil springs $5 - The $0.25 trigger job CR Speed Belt, $50 Bladetech DOH, $50 2 Bladetech double pouches, $36 I shot a $1200 XD and it just did not feel like a $1200 gun. Trigger was just OK, Not nearly as good as my Revolver when I use it SA. Are any of the Service pistols going to give me that nice trigger feel like a 1911 or Revolver on SA. Because of the trigger I just did not have the desire to buy a gun like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Spartan $575 The rest of the gear list above is the same. Trigger job will be perfect, 1911 trigger work is a science these days. Get some 10 round mags and you are ready to go. Have fun, not a huge expense, but NOW you have a platform that can be tweaked to take you as far as you want to go in USPSA as long as you are shooting limited capacity magazines divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I settled on the DAO trigger as being my excuse. I'll buy that for a dollar. I had a Taurus that looked strikingly familiar to that. Probably had the same 10lb trigger pull. Since it is your ccw gun keep it for that. But buy yourself a different gun for the games. What divisions do you want to shoot? Joe I was thinking of something that let me shoot a 45 in both IPDA and USPSA stuff. I never owned a 45, they seem to be "the" gun to shoot for competion. Or I could just get a Glock but I just don't have "the love" for those guns. The kahr has a smooth 7-8lb ish trigger. Don't want to work on it. Even though you don't have "the love" for Glocks, a Glock 21, which is a full sized 45, can be used in both Production, Limited, Limited 10 (hell, Open) and many of the IDPA divisions. Out of curiosity, what is it about a Glock that you don't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Out of curiosity, what is it about a Glock that you don't like? Trigger mostly. To be fair I never fired one with a reworked trigger. I should do that. It's ugly. But thats really not important. It feels loose. But again not important. My brother (LEO) has one. I have shot it some. It shoots well enough. I looked at the MP9 and it points a little better to me. For some reaon I like the CZ. Maybe it's the metal frame, SA trigger when I want it. Most of my gripes with the Service guns is the stock, creepy, heavy trigger. I wish they all felt like my SW686 on single action. I think I also like steel guns better then the poly guns. I think I would prefer to stick with a 9mm but my trigger prefrence sends me to a 1911. I like Stock Service Pistol for IDPA. From a cost perspective this seems like a nice place to play in both USPSA and IDPA, but I don't know the USPSA rules as well. EDIT: I also like the CZ because it has a actual hammer to cock. Weird but that part of the 1911/CZ thing for me. Edited January 9, 2007 by 98sr20ve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Interesting. Glocks are not for everyone, but they are great for this sport. If it is the grip angle that is bothering you, see if you can borrow someone's XD. The angle on those is a bit more 1911-ish. If you like it, they make sub-compact XD's for carry too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Out of curiosity, what is it about a Glock that you don't like? Trigger mostly. To be fair I never fired one with a reworked trigger. I should do that. It's ugly. But thats really not important. It feels loose. But again not important. My brother (LEO) has one. I have shot it some. It shoots well enough. I looked at the MP9 and it points a little better to me. For some reaon I like the CZ. Maybe it's the metal frame, SA trigger when I want it. Most of my gripes with the Service guns is the stock, creepy, heavy trigger. I wish they all felt like my SW686 on single action. I think I also like steel guns better then the poly guns. I think I would prefer to stick with a 9mm but my trigger prefrence sends me to a 1911. I like Stock Service Pistol for IDPA. From a cost perspective this seems like a nice place to play in both USPSA and IDPA, but I don't know the USPSA rules as well. EDIT: I also like the CZ because it has a actual hammer to cock. Weird but that part of the 1911/CZ thing for me. There is also the CZ clone route like the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness breed. They have an "Elite" line which includes one called the "Stock" which is anything but, and has a dynamite trigger job and other goodies right from the factory. This is generally used in production class and "street" price is under $600. It is the best deal in an already "tricked out" gun that I know of. I have one of their "Elite Match" models in 40SW and another standard 9mm. http://www.eaacorp.com/handguns-witness-elite-stock-TP.html XD's are pretty good guns as well. A good trigger job will really change your opinion of the gun. They are reliable as rocks and there are lots of parts available for them too. Still, the 1911 types are plentiful, can be had reasonably cheaply, and there is no end to what you can do to one. Trust me... you will eventually get to where you can keep the sights steady when firing your Kahr double action, but other guns will probably be better for "gaming" and you will sooner or later get another one. Edited January 9, 2007 by Justsomeguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 There is also the CZ clone route like the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness breed. They have an "Elite" line which includes one called the "Stock" which is anything but, and has a dynamite trigger job and other goodies right from the factory. This is generally used in production class and "street" price is under $600. It is the best deal in an already "tricked out" gun that I know of. I have one of their "Elite Match" models in 40SW and another standard 9mm.http://www.eaacorp.com/handguns-witness-elite-stock-TP.html Is that a steel frame gun? Looks really nice. Sounds perfect actually. Do other CZ75 parts work or is EAA the only place for parts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Nobody "loves" a Glock/XD/MP/CZ more than a real single action. (well only some freaks) Its what you gotta shoot in Production. IF I could shoot a SS 1911 with a 2 lb trigger in Production I would but I can't and we got divisions for those guns. We are suggesting more common better guns than your Taurus which I assume you are shooting in Production. Since you currently shoot a DAO other DAO type guns like Glock and XD seem natural choices. They are also the most popular by a long shot. The CZ has a great single action trigger but to get to it, you gotta get through the double action. For me personally, its too much of a transistion from a 1911 which is my usual gun. If I only shot one gun, a CZ is high on the list and its a great choice and notice its well below the 1K mark. Edited January 9, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Out of curiosity, what is it about a Glock that you don't like? Trigger mostly. To be fair I never fired one with a reworked trigger. I should do that. It's ugly. But thats really not important. It feels loose. But again not important. My brother (LEO) has one. I have shot it some. It shoots well enough. I looked at the MP9 and it points a little better to me. For some reaon I like the CZ. Maybe it's the metal frame, SA trigger when I want it. Most of my gripes with the Service guns is the stock, creepy, heavy trigger. I wish they all felt like my SW686 on single action. I think I also like steel guns better then the poly guns. I think I would prefer to stick with a 9mm but my trigger prefrence sends me to a 1911. I like Stock Service Pistol for IDPA. From a cost perspective this seems like a nice place to play in both USPSA and IDPA, but I don't know the USPSA rules as well. EDIT: I also like the CZ because it has a actual hammer to cock. Weird but that part of the 1911/CZ thing for me. Sounds like you want to shoot Single Stack minor in USPSA and ESP in IDPA, with a 9mm 1911 gun. I want to do that myself some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) We are suggesting more common better guns than your Taurus which I assume you are shooting in Production. Actually, I am shooting a KAHR. My CCW. I guess in the end I want a "race gun" I also guess for the money I want to spend it's going to be a M+P, Glock, or CZ or STI. If I really favor the CZ I would have to get used to the DA/SA transition which is the part of my complaint about the KAHR and its DA trigger. Kahr has a very smooth DA trigger but it's still DAO in the end. Edited January 9, 2007 by 98sr20ve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 We are suggesting more common better guns than your Taurus which I assume you are shooting in Production. Actually, I am shooting a KAHR. My CCW. I guess in the end I want a "race gun" I also guess for the money I want to spend it's going to be a M+P, Glock, or CZ or STI. If I really favor the CZ I would have to get used to the DA/SA transition which is the part of my complaint about the KAHR and its DA trigger. Kahr has a very smooth DA trigger but it's still DAO in the end. OK sorry Kahr Taurus they are the same to me. Again comparing a Glock/M&P to a STI is like saying I want a car and its either gonna be a Toyota Camry or a Porsche Carerra. Not exactly the same type cars, both are very good at what they do, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 The 1911, STI, or SVI platforms are a single action gun and not allowed in Production. CZ also makes single action only guns, the Tactical Sport and SA models which aren't allowed in Production. The CZ-75, Glock, M&P, XD, are all striker fired or DA/SA guns which are allowed in Production. You could use any one of these firearms in Limited, Limited 10, or Open if you so chose. If you know what division you want to shoot you'll get a lot better advice. As it stands there's a ton of division specific advice thrown out here that probably won't apply very well at all in the wrong division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Again comparing a Glock/M&P to a STI is like saying I want a car and its either gonna be a Toyota Camry or a Porsche Carerra. Not exactly the same type cars, both are very good at what they do, though. Price wise it's not that great a difference in the price really between the Spartan and a Glock. At least not to me. The idea between any gun other then the KAHR which I carry would be that iit would be a dedicated race gun. I could tune it, mod it, whatever. It can be full size, and appropriate for the task at hand in whatever class the gun fits into. Be that single stack or SSP type of thing. Edited January 9, 2007 by 98sr20ve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If you don't reload ammo, then you will likely want to stick with 9mm for the cost. If you are shooting 9mm, then you will be most competitive in Production division...where everybody is scored Minor power factor (making 9mm competitive). If you shoot in Production division, then the gun has to be a non-single action first shot. (Glock, Beretta, CZ, M&P, XD, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 There is also the CZ clone route like the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness breed. They have an "Elite" line which includes one called the "Stock" which is anything but, and has a dynamite trigger job and other goodies right from the factory. This is generally used in production class and "street" price is under $600. It is the best deal in an already "tricked out" gun that I know of. I have one of their "Elite Match" models in 40SW and another standard 9mm. http://www.eaacorp.com/handguns-witness-elite-stock-TP.html Is that a steel frame gun? Looks really nice. Sounds perfect actually. Do other CZ75 parts work or is EAA the only place for parts, etc. Yes... It is a steel framed gun. It was made with the Production Division in mind by the manufacturer. Most parts do not interchange though the differences are small. It IS after all, a CZ clone. There is a parts list on the site as well if you are interested, though there is little you could do to one of their Elite pistols anyway that would enhance it. In Europe they are very popular guns in the action sports, and they are gaining ground here as well. They are something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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