GentlemanJim Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I have heard rumors , but I need the truth, Did SPS basicly steal the STI SVI design, or is it ok that they build a knock off?? Before I put them on my I HATE YOU FOR MESSING WITH AMERICANS LIST Thanks JIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 there is something about a u.s. pat. and a world pat. i think the STI and SVI is only a u.s. pat. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Besides the domestic/international issue, SPS could be paying licensing fees to S_I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 If they pay STI SVI its ok, if they just ripped it off ..ILL HATE EM. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 (edited) I think that they stole the design and are not paying anybody. I remember seeing a clear plastic grip floating around on the internet and thought it looked neat so I called S_I to ask about it. They let me know right away that it was a patent infringement and was contraband in the USA. SPS can sell their stuff anywhere except within the USA due to the patent restrictions. To clarify, I think that the only parts of the S_I guns that are patented (or patentable) are the modular frame, grip, and method of attaching the two parts together. Magazines, slides and internal parts are all public domain items. Edited January 4, 2007 by L9X25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 CLEAR plastic S_I grips? Now that would be something cool to have. I wouldn't get it unless it came from STI or SVI though. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I hate paying $100.00 for a $20.00 part myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMH Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I like the idea of competition because sometimes it's really hard to get the American parts and when you do they sure are pricey. The prices for the American stuff is really getting out of hand, and the old saying of "you get what you pay for" doesn't really apply because I've seen way too many guns and parts not function or fail straight from the factories. Maybe SPS will help both of them pay more attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) I'm sorry Daniel but I couldn't disagree more. When an American company like STI or SVI comes up a with something innovative, it takes time and money to do the product development. First, they thought it up. Second, they invested their money in design, tooling, manufacture, marketing etc. They paid the workers that produced the product a living wage to do it. After they do the heavy lifting they are entitled a return on their investment. If people don't want their product or it is priced too high they won't buy it. The price is set by the cost to produce it and the profit that the market will bear. Nobody forces anyone to buy a 2011. They have other options, Glock, Para and many others. Now comes a foreign company that copies their design and uses it to compete against them. That kind of competition doesn't force a company to produce a better product, it only undermines their business. It means less incentive for companies to produce new and cool toys for us to play with. I will spend my money with SVI & STI God Bless Texas. Tony Edited January 12, 2007 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 When an American company like STI or SVI comes up a with something innovative, it takes time and money to do the product development.First, they thought it up. Second, they invested their money in design, tooling, manufacture, marketing etc. They paid the workers that produced the product a living wage to do it. After they do the heavy lifting they are entitled a return on their investment. If people don't want their product or it is priced too high they won't buy it. The price is set by the cost to produce it and the profit that the market will bear. Nobody forces anyone to buy a 2011. They have other options, Glock, Para and many others. Now comes a foreign company that copies their design and uses it to compete against them. That kind of competition doesn't force a company to produce a better product, it only undermines their business. It means less incentive for companies to produce new and cool toys for us to play with. I could say almost the same for a lot of Made in Italy products being counterfeited all over the world ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 They all stole parts of their designs from Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishlad Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 How long do patent rights last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I doubt they stole it. If they did, Colt would eat them alive in court. The original Colt design is quite old and patents expire and become part of the public domain after a period of time. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) They all stole parts of their designs from Colt. Good point - only that patent EXPIRED so no 1911 maker "stole" the design from Colt, John Moses Browning or anyone else. Not SPS or STI. They are all free to use that design. TLSHORES wrote: "After they do the heavy lifting they are entitled a return on their investment. If people don't want their product or it is priced too high they won't buy it. The price is set by the cost to produce it and the profit that the market will bear. Nobody forces anyone to buy a 2011. They have other options, Glock, Para and many others. Now comes a foreign company that copies their design and uses it to compete against them.That kind of competition doesn't force a company to produce a better product, it only undermines their business. It means less incentive for companies to produce new and cool toys for us to play with." Actually, no, STI/SV only bothered to do the legal "heavy lifting" in the USA. THEY, meaning STI/SV, ignored the rest of the world. In the inovation world, you ignore international patent at your own peril. Fact is, they could have patented world-wide and they knew it (or should have). Does anyone really believe that SPS/Spain or Imbel Brazil would violate an international patent? Of course not, but its STI's fault that there is NO patent on the design (outside the US). Please stop with the "stole" crap - its incorrect. If STI/SC had not bothered to patent in the USA at all, would you still feel sorry for them when a big US company fairly, legally used ("stole" to some of you) their design? I think not. You would wonder at STI/SV's failure to protect their design. I wonder what STI/SV was thinking when they chose to forego the internation patent? -most likely they saw their product as not producing much profit & not justifying the additional cost for protection world-wide. Their choice. HOWEVER, their U.S. patent DOES protect them in the largest STI/SV market in the world: the USA. Thus, the theory that the SPS "undermines" STI really does not hold water. This is also why you will not be able to buy an SPS in the USA until the weak STI/SV design patent expires sometime in the next few years (2008). After that, you should be able to buy both SPS and Imbell 1911 (or 2011s) if anyone bothers to bring them into the U.S. Moreover, you will then have MORE "cool toys for us to play with" just as we are seeing in the 1911 single stack market. STI/SVI recouped their costs. After 2008, the real competition begins and WE, the consumers, will benefit. Now, I am going to the range to shoot my "stolen armalite designed" AR-15 knock-off, even though I feel really guilty about it. Edited January 12, 2007 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 I'm sorry Daniel but I couldn't disagree more.When an American company like STI or SVI comes up a with something innovative, it takes time and money to do the product development. First, they thought it up. Second, they invested their money in design, tooling, manufacture, marketing etc. They paid the workers that produced the product a living wage to do it. After they do the heavy lifting they are entitled a return on their investment. If people don't want their product or it is priced too high they won't buy it. The price is set by the cost to produce it and the profit that the market will bear. Nobody forces anyone to buy a 2011. They have other options, Glock, Para and many others. Now comes a foreign company that copies their design and uses it to compete against them. That kind of competition doesn't force a company to produce a better product, it only undermines their business. It means less incentive for companies to produce new and cool toys for us to play with. I will spend my money with SVI & STI God Bless Texas. Tony In my opinion this is just about ..the perfect quote.!! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Over and over people repeat the diatribe that companies that design widget X deserve protection or they wouldn't choose to spend their money on R&D. Nothing could be further from the truth (or more un-American and un-Capitalistic). Patents are a license to not innovate and sit on version 1 of the product for 25/35/100 years. If you have a product and feel it's the best thing out there, prove it by allowing free competition. Run what you brung and stop hiding behind your momma's apron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Hey...look over there...it's your gear. Make sure it's empty, and go dry-fire. Posting Guidelines Attitude Please be polite.... Intent This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition... Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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