billdncn Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Years ago when I was shooting a 45 in Bullseye I had switched from "Bullseye" to "231" with good results. I have yet to try it for the 40. I've been using Titegroup from the start. Loading 40 minor in my G35 for IDPA with very good results. I just got a used Para 16-40, and it won't group. I will eventually use the Para for USPSA (major), but right now I'm just loading minor So I'm starting from scratch, and was just thinking about trying 231. I've searched, and just don't see much talk about it in the 40 forum. Opinions please. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Didn't we just have an article in the Front Sight where it mentioned how notorious 231 is to temperature changes back when we shot it in our .45s under a 200 gr SWC...? In any case, I've burned a bunch of 231 and have always liked it albeit it was a bit on the dirty side... I'm sure Winchester and most manuals will have data... The Para may not shoot because it's a Para??? Iv'e seen good ones and bad ones. Maybe you got a fussy one. A friend has a Para with a Ed Brown barrel in it that shoots as well as my SV with a Schuemann. Mick A27257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 Didn't we just have an article in the Front Sight where it mentioned how notorious 231 is to temperature changes back when we shot it in our .45s under a 200 gr SWC...?In any case, I've burned a bunch of 231 and have always liked it albeit it was a bit on the dirty side... I'm sure Winchester and most manuals will have data... The Para may not shoot because it's a Para??? Iv'e seen good ones and bad ones. Maybe you got a fussy one. A friend has a Para with a Ed Brown barrel in it that shoots as well as my SV with a Schuemann. Mick A27257 Mick Thanks. I don't get FrontSight as I'm not a member of USPSA yet. 231 is temp. sensitive huh? I think I do recall it being a bit dirty now that you mention it. Your may be correct about my Para. I've done some things that I thought would enhance it's accuracy with no luck yet. Next will be a barrel replacement. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwmiket Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Can't say for a Para, but I've shot a bunch of W231 in .40 and never had any problems. I hear it is temp sensitive, but I was using it in the summer, so didn't matter to me at the time. It's cheap, and feels good, just a little dirty, like Mick mentioned. Give it a whirl, just be aware of it's downsides. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 5.0 of 231 under a bear creek 180 (SWC or TC) makes about 975 fps for my Para P16 with a Para factory barrel in it. My seating depth is 1.175". I took these to Area 2 - 4 years ago and they made major with room to spare, as I recall though, it was a nice temperate day, 70's to 80's, I've not chrono'ed the load in the lower temp extremes. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 5.0 of 231 under a bear creek 180 (SWC or TC) makes about 975 fps for my Para P16 with a Para factory barrel in it. My seating depth is 1.175". I took these to Area 2 - 4 years ago and they made major with room to spare, as I recall though, it was a nice temperate day, 70's to 80's, I've not chrono'ed the load in the lower temp extremes.Vince Bear Creek? Is that jacketed, plated, or lead? I guess I should have noted that I'm using Zero 180 TCFM (jacketed) right now, but I have there 180gr. JHP's on the way. I'm hoping the JHP's may be a little more accurate with less smoke (no exposed lead base). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Bear Creek bullets are moly-encapsulated lead bullets, similar to Precisions and Masterblasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 If that para still wont shoot, put a KART ez-fit barrel in it. they do shoot good. 231 and a 180 Grain MG JHP at 1.200" 5.2 grains and im at 171 pf. it also shoots more accurately than any other load ive tried. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Conley Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I load my 5 inch SV .40 cal 5.2 grains 231 OAL is 1.185-1.190 and PF @ 172. Soft shooting, good load. Chris C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Thanks guys. The Para's at the smith right now getting welded, and re-fitted. Harmon, he actually suggested a Kart ez-fit as a future option. Thanks for the load data's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I'll give the counter argument...with my "internet knowledge". Since the days that this forum started, 231 has been reported to not only be temperature sensitive, but also position sensitive. Meaning that shortening the OAL a little (bullet setback) can produce lots of extra pressure. 40 at major is a high pressure round to start with. With so many other powders out there that work well...I never bothered to try my luck with 231 in 40 at Major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 TITEGROUP TITEGROUP TITEGROUP Why even bother to try something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I kave used light loads of both WST and W-231 in my PO16-40. Both shot very well with lead, plated or jacketed bullets. All my loads are on the mild side nver exceeding ca.800 fps. with 155 to 180 gr. bullets. Enough to punch holes in paper targets and knock down steel plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Tightgroup... the only problem I ever had with it was downloading to 125 PF groups would open up some due to low volume. anything I have tried 145pf and up seemed to work fine. TG is cheap, readily available, low flash (ever shoot night matches) low smoke, cleaner than most. easily makes major as well as +p level in 9mm. On your 16 40 does it have factory bushing ? Mike your barrel and replace with one of proper size can do wonders. It was the only thing acuracy wise I did to my Para and it made a world of difference. The factory one was visibly bored off center and was oversized to boot. My group size was ok but it shot about 8" right at 15 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I load my 5 inch SV .40 cal 5.2 grains 231 OAL is 1.185-1.190 and PF @ 172. Soft shooting, good load. What bullet do you use? Thanks, Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 TITEGROUP TITEGROUP TITEGROUP Why even bother to try something else? b/c N310 and N320 are softer and cleaner Tightgroup... the only problem I ever had with it was downloading to 125 PF groups would open up some due to low volume. anything I have tried 145pf and up seemed to work fine. That is my experience also. TG is very erratic at low PF in 40. TG loves pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I used 231 to load .40 major for my G22 once. Had too much muzzle flash that it gave quite a light show. Switched to Titegroup and never looked back. I still use 231 loading .45s though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Conley Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I load my 5 inch SV .40 cal 5.2 grains 231 OAL is 1.185-1.190 and PF @ 172. Soft shooting, good load. What bullet do you use? Thanks, Buddy Winchester 180 grn jacketed hollow points for big matches. Precision Delta 180 grn for local matches and practice. Will be going to Precision Delta full time though. Accurate and cheap enough. My barrel doesn't like lead bullets at all. Chris C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 That is my experience also. TG is very erratic at low PF in 40. TG loves pressure. In 40 ? Erratic in what way? My minor 40 loads with TG have won match after match after match. (Steel, Action Pistol, IDPA, USPSA...) I am highly confident in the accuracy of those minor loads in 40 with TG. Then again...I don't know that I ever really tried to get it all the way down to 125pf. (I like it for Major too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I tried TG in the 9mm and didn't like it, but when I tried it in the 40, well, it came into it's own. I loading 4.7gr TG under the 180gr Frontier Plated and it's good to go. Yes I know, it's a major load, but it's comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 An earlier Titegroup experiment with Rainier 165s @t 127 PF resulted in excellent accuracy in my wife's G35. The same is true with 165s @ 138 PF, or Precision Delta 180s @ 138 PF, or Precision Delta 180s @ 169 PF, or any of my long-loaded major PF ammo for my Para using Rainier 180s, Berrys 180s, or Precision Delta 180s. 231 is a filthy step backwards compared to Titegroup IMHO. I used a bunch of 231 for my .45s, but finally tried Clays and never looked back. I consider 231 to be like Unique; works for almost everything, but is rarely the best choice. VV is good stuff, but for me there's not nearly enough benefit to justify the extra expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 TITEGROUP TITEGROUP TITEGROUP Why even bother to try something else? b/c N310 and N320 are softer and cleaner Tightgroup... the only problem I ever had with it was downloading to 125 PF groups would open up some due to low volume. anything I have tried 145pf and up seemed to work fine. That is my experience also. TG is very erratic at low PF in 40. TG loves pressure. Odd. My 40 minor load with TG groups very well. Sub 1.5" at 25 with stock Glock barrel. I'm sticking with TG in my 40. My G35 has been turned into my Limited gun. I did pick up a G17 for IDPA, and Production. I'll probably use TG for that too. I'm using Zero JHP's in my 9 right now. I hear that TG smokes a lot with the "Black Bullets", and 231 does well (better) with them. I may try 231 with coated lead when the cost of jacketed get's too high Thanks to all. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 231 works great with 180 grain moly-coated bullets for major PF. I'm getting 170 PF at 4.6 grains out of my son's G22. This is 0.4 grains below book max, lots of headroom. Accurate, consistent, and shoots soft. Less smoke that TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I did pick up a G17 for IDPA, and Production. I'll probably use TG for that too. I'm using Zero JHP's in my 9 right now. I hear that TG smokes a lot with the "Black Bullets", and 231 does well (better) with them. I may try 231 with coated lead when the cost of jacketed get's too high Thanks to all. Bill Bill: For your G17,I suggest that you try 3.9gr/Unique with the 147gr CMJ bullet. PF = 138.17 Velocity = 939.9fps. It gives a nice push instead of a snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 231 works great with 180 grain moly-coated bullets for major PF. I'm getting 170 PF at 4.6 grains out of my son's G22. This is 0.4 grains below book max, lots of headroom. Accurate, consistent, and shoots soft. Less smoke that TG. Good timing with your reply! I just bought some 180gr Masterblasters to try. The cost of jacketed has really gone up. I'm going to try 231 with them. mainly because I've heard that they (moly/poly) coated bullets do smoke a lot with TG. Thanks Bill:For your G17,I suggest that you try 3.9gr/Unique with the 147gr CMJ bullet. PF = 138.17 Velocity = 939.9fps. It gives a nice push instead of a snap. RePete, I used Unique years ago and switched to Bullseye, then to 231. I liked 231 better. I don't remember why, but I did. Maybe because it was a little cleaner or something This was also in a 45 though at low velocities. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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