elenius Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Are there any reasonable CA legal rifles that are useful for USPSA? Is the 10 rd mag restriction a real killer, or does it not matter much for the types of stages used in 3gun/rifle matches? Would a springfield M1A socom work? Looks like this should be legal w 10rd mags. HM division? Or should I just go for a MOR? Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I think a M1A or a Ruger mini 14 would work fine. The 10 round mag capacity might hurt. Maybe you'll find some Hi caps left behind at the range..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 I think a M1A or a Ruger mini 14 would work fine. The 10 round mag capacity might hurt. Maybe you'll find some Hi caps left behind at the range..... Hmm, Ruger's web site says "CA legal: N/A" on all its rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Mini-14 and M1A are your options. There's nothing wrong with running the Mini. A buddy that shoots at Richmond a lot, Mark Turrin, runs one and does very well with it. Sargenv does pretty well with his too. The big things that are "hard" to work with on Mini's is the trigger and working out a solution to a mag release. Charlie Granger, built an extension to where he could release the mags with a release that extended to his shooting thumb. Pretty sweet. Hope that helped. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Take a good hard look at the Keltec rifle. It's CA legal (right now anyway), runs AR mags and shoots well enough to run with the AR's if you can. I think it is a much better option than a Mini as it will work pretty well for ya' right outa' the box. Another option to look at is the Robson rifle. AR mag compatability is a huge plus and one that I would choose over any other feature here. 30 round AR mags really can be found laying around the range if you look hard enough and are in the right places (over in Nevada for instance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 Take a good hard look at the Keltec rifle. It's CA legal (right now anyway), runs AR mags and shoots well enough to run with the AR's if you can. I think it is a much better option than a Mini as it will work pretty well for ya' right outa' the box.Another option to look at is the Robson rifle. AR mag compatability is a huge plus and one that I would choose over any other feature here. 30 round AR mags really can be found laying around the range if you look hard enough and are in the right places (over in Nevada for instance). The Keltec looks interesting. Do you have a link for the "Robson rifle"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) IMO the ultimate CA-legal rifle would be an M-1 rebarrelled for .308 necked down to 7mm (7mm-08) or 6.5mm (.260 Rem). You'll get better ballistics and lighter ammo than .308. Carlock is the best known gunsmith for very accurate .308 to necked-down subcaliber modification, but many competent gunsmiths could do a decent job. Otherwise, I would test the Ruger Mini-30 with 7.62x39 154gr ammo to see if you make major. If you need 10-rounders for the Mini-30 or Mini-14, check on the rules for permanently modifying 20-rounders to 10-round capacity and have a gunsmith do the 10-round mod BEFORE shipping the mags to PRC. If you don't mind the felt recoil of the .308, 10-rounders that are the same length as GI 20-rounders are also withing the rules for the NRA leg (service rilfe) match. .308, 7.62x39 and .223 have lots of commercial ammo for sale, while the necked-down .308s would be more costly and more rare (you might consider reloading), but usually quite accurate. Edited November 13, 2006 by richardschennberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Kel-tecs flat out do not hold up under any kind of aggressive use. Seen a couple fail in classes in under 500 rounds. They won't last for 3 gun either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You're kidding me! I thought the SEALS used them. Would a springfield M1A socom work? Looks like this should be legal w 10rd mags. HM division? Well if you didn't buy some 30-40 round AR15 and Mini-14 mags before the dealy-o... He-Man/Heavy Metal with the 10 rdrs would probably be more competitive than being in Tactical/Limited/Open with 10 rdrs. But if you had bought some 30/40 round magazines before the ban I'd recommend the Mini-14. If the Mini-14 reloads anything like the M1A then the reloading-speed-issue is a non-issue. And of course the A-Team used the Mini-14. If that's not a good endorsement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. But it sure is butt ugly, no pun intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. But it sure is butt ugly, no pun intended I didn't say it was pretty, only legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 For the scoop on the "OLL" thing go over to calguns.net. They are pretty much the ones that started the whole OLL wave. I bought a lower in CA and then promptly moved to WA. To say I over paid a bit would be an understatement but at the time it was all I thought I could get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. todd-i had a couch like that in the late 60's. too many nights at the fillmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. todd-i had a couch like that in the late 60's. too many nights at the fillmore. Butch, Todd is way to young for that.... didn't I see you at next door to the Fillmore at Magnolia ThunderPussys a few times? michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Magnolia ThunderPussysThat was the name of a vegetarian restaurant/catering operation on Castro street near 24th in the mid sixties (San Francisco). I went to grammar school around the corner. The name of that place was a huge source of schoolboy snickering on the way home every day.I also went to the Fillmore West and the carousel Ballroom whenever I could sneak out at night, but I don't remember very much about those days ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 todd-i had a couch like that in the late 60's. too many nights at the fillmore. I wasn't even in school in the late 60's,... ok maybe pre-school in 69 BTW, not my couch, rifle or picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Magnolia ThunderPussysThat was the name of a vegetarian restaurant/catering operation on Castro street near 24th in the mid sixties (San Francisco). I went to grammar school around the corner. The name of that place was a huge source of schoolboy snickering on the way home every day.I also went to the Fillmore West and the carousel Ballroom whenever I could sneak out at night, but I don't remember very much about those days ;-) i don't remember much either, between winterland and the fillmore. can't blame loss of hearing on shooting-twas the mountain and hendrix concerts... guess todd was in pre-school then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Since Cal. kept the AWB aren't all the preban AR's still legal? I know guy's from Cal. that shoot AR's in 3 gun comp. I have talked to shooters from Massachusetts that also kept the ban and they can buy preban AR's. What is the story on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) Since Cal. kept the AWB aren't all the preban AR's still legal? I know guy's from Cal. that shoot AR's in 3 gun comp. I have talked to shooters from Massachusetts that also kept the ban and they can buy preban AR's. What is the story on this? I may be wrong but I believe that you cannot transfer an AW in CA to another owner similar to the .50 ban. You can only have an AW in CA if you registered it during the registration period. What really threw the CAL-DOJ into a frenzy was the courts ruled that the ban had to be by name, not type ie they could not ban AR lowers simply because they are AR lowers, they had to ban them by name like DPMS, Colt, etc. Now, other maufatures are steping up and selling thousands of lowers in the state. They can be built up only in certain configurations. The big no-no is have a pistol grip and a detachable mag, so they are either using the Monsterman grip like above or pinning in a 10 rnd mag and loading from the top. The laws are about as clear as mud in CA regarding the whole mess and the CA Doj is in NO HURRY to clear them up as they are pwned. To stay on top of the AR/AK situation in CA one must really follow calguns.net as it's a pretty fluid environment THANK GOD I moved to a free state and this mess doesn't apply to me anymore Everyone really needs to look at CA to realize what is going to happen in a few years. Buy everything you want now while you can because pretty much everyone agrees that another ban is coming and this time it isn't going to sunset. Edited November 16, 2006 by DanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Your choice for a Ca legal 3 gun are limited. 1. BUT, Ruger just announced that they are going into production Jan 1, on a bull barrel Mini 14. This should be much better than a stock mini. 1.5" MOA claimed. 2. Kel-Tec, takes AR mags, good for a club match. 3. M1 carbine, good for a club match. 4. M1A 5. Volquartsen Extreme, takes AR mags. ( no one has gotten one yet who has one on order) Pricey $2000, 10 lbs. very accurate. 6. ASI conversion mini 14 $1400-2000, but very accurate. Problem with the mini is the mag change, slower (but with some of the 40 rd. PMI pre 94 ban mags that you have) on most stages you will have enough rounds without a mag change. 7. AR with the monster man grip, you could even put a JP upper on that puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 DanM, thanks for the explanation of the murky laws of the left coast. Man that really sucks, the next generation of shooters from Cal. won't have the opportunity to compete on an equal footing with the rest of the country. It will serve the purpose intended of diminishing the ranks of the shooting public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Here is the Robinson Rifle CA version (sorry about my mis-spelling it earlier). http://www.robarm.com/mainpage.htm This is CA legal and from what I hear, it is more robust than the Keltec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. That still has a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, and detachable magazine on a semi-auto, which still would have been considered 'bad' under the 1994 crime bill. Are we sure that with those remaining features intact, the gun as pictured is good to go in CA? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 With this type of grip an "off-list" AR is legal in CA. It doesn't look like it would be any harder to handle than a Mini-14. That still has a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, and detachable magazine on a semi-auto, which still would have been considered 'bad' under the 1994 crime bill. Are we sure that with those remaining features intact, the gun as pictured is good to go in CA? Really? Well... Bayo lug is not an evil feature according to CA laws, so we can forget that one. Hard to tell if that is a muzzle break or a flash hider, but I'm assuming it is a muzzle break. Whether the grip is a pistol grip or not has not been tested in court, but assuming that it really isn't a pistol grip the detachable mag is ok. With my assumptions, I guess the answer is that it _probably_ is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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