Rule Question

[1911vm]

I have a stupid questions. I ran in to something new I am R. handed L. eye dominant and have been shouting with scotch tape on my glasses for past two years. I attended a match in N. Carolina ( Carolina Cup ) and was told to remove the tape because it is considered a device that you cannot have on my glasses. I cannot find that in the rule book. Does any one know where does it is?

Edited November 8, 2006 by 1911vm

[Jim Watson]

The only thing I know of that could be applied to that is

E2C (Equipment) must be suitable for and worn in a manner that is appropriate for all day continuous wear.

What a nitpicker.

I guess I better not tell about my glasses with Rx for the sights in one eye, distance in the other any more.

[1911vm]

No according to them it refers to a device or something of that nature that you add to your glasses. Your glasses are made that way so you should be ok. I guess I just order a plain plastic lens and sand the area that I want it will be like permanent tape (haha)

And I actually do drive and work with the tape most of the time in hope to re trainee my eyes.

[PJONES5]

I have a stupid questions. I ran in to something new I am R. handed L. eye dominant and have been shouting with scotch tape on my glasses for past two years. I attended a match in N. Carolina ( Carolina Cup ) and was told to remove the tape because it is considered a device that you cannot have on my glasses. I cannot find that in the rule book. Does any one know where does it is?

I would call BS and demand my match fee back,I have always shot with tape over my Right eye.

I have always heard good things about the cup,but if that happened I believe I would be raising some heck.

pat

The only thing I know of that could be applied to that is

E2C (Equipment) must be suitable for and worn in a manner that is appropriate for all day continuous wear.

What a nitpicker.

I guess I better not tell about my glasses with Rx for the sights in one eye, distance in the other any more.

I think that is really reaching.

pat

[1911vm]

I totally agree. And if the match was not as good as it was I would be demanding my money back. I will be going back I just want to go armed as it may with rules. The match is terrific and if it was not for this I would give them 10 out of 10

[Fireant]

Switch to sun glasses and put the tape on the inside.

[Mayonaise]

Switch to sun glasses and put the tape on the inside.

Nice solution.

It is pretty nitpicky.

[Fireant]

Switch to sun glasses and put the tape on the inside.

Nice solution.

It is pretty nitpicky.

The only time there's a problem is when you have to go prone. Your stance changes and you can't see anything ask my how I found out

[racerba]

Edited due to the fact that I did not read originally that this applies to IDPA.

Edited November 9, 2006 by racerba

[1911vm]

I am not trying to get around the rules. I what to know if they are correct

[Fireant]

No, they are not correct. There is nothing in the rules to prevent that.

[FTDR]

i know of a dozen shooters that wear tape, half of them at the nationals for the past two years

wouldn't have happened to be a so that was shooting in your class and division?

[Mike P]

The only thing I know of that could be applied to that is

E2C (Equipment) must be suitable for and worn in a manner that is appropriate for all day continuous wear.

What a nitpicker.

I guess I better not tell about my glasses with Rx for the sights in one eye, distance in the other any more.

I always knew you must have been cheating when you out-shot me.

This sort of thing is the same thing as wearing knee pads. If you wear them on the outside of your britches they're not legal, if you wear them where they can't be seen they are O.K.

If the R.O. doesn't see any violation, he isn't going to call it, but if he does, he should.

The S.O. made a good call in my opinion.

Of course you could have told him that it was some sort of medical tape to keep your eye from popping out whe you have to go prone.

Mike

[Cosby]

This is exactly why I struggle to get excited about IDPA. The rules are so blurry that it seems impossible to satisfy every SO, especially the ones that are competing against you or those that just enjoy their short-lived power trip.

[1911vm]

I have received the final reasoning, IE explanation. Putting the tape on my glasses made them competition only accessory like every one that shots IDPA normally wears the stupid vest and nobody uses in the waist band holsters. And the all CDP ESP ESR competitors carry their guns daily.

[michaels]

This is the type of rule enforcement that kills the sport...

A good friend of mine was trying to shoot in IDPA, he's a former DEA agent who was hurt in a bomb blast on the job. He has no left ear and no hearing on the left side. He was told that he must wear hearing protection on both ears. Ever try to keep hearing protection on your head without an ear? He walks & runs pretty good for having an artifical left foot/lower leg, but was told no use of his Canadian crutch during a course of fire. He shoots most of the time using his strong hand only. The crutch was ruled a "shooting aid"...He's run in at least 3 marathons that I know off, but can't stand still very well yet.

Great game, lousy rule Interpretation....

michaels

[tightloop]

I am afraid I would have demanded to see the MD and the AC if he was there....

[Mike P]

This is the type of rule enforcement that kills the sport...

A good friend of mine was trying to shoot in IDPA, he's a former DEA agent who was hurt in a bomb blast on the job. He has no left ear and no hearing on the left side. He was told that he must wear hearing protection on both ears. Ever try to keep hearing protection on your head without an ear? He walks & runs pretty good for having an artifical left foot/lower leg, but was told no use of his Canadian crutch during a course of fire. He shoots most of the time using his strong hand only. The crutch was ruled a "shooting aid"...He's run in at least 3 marathons that I know off, but can't stand still very well yet.

Great game, lousy rule Interpretation....

michaels

Enforcing the rules will kill the sport??? Non-enforcement of the rules will I think come closer to bringing about the sports demise.

Hearing/eye protection is not an option on most ranges, it is a safety rule after all. Its unfortunate that your friend was denied participation. Try some other clubs.

I still say good call on the taped glasses though, its not like they ruled a glass eye was illegal.

Its pretty cheesy to suggest that an SO, any SO would try and penalize competitors to gain a trophy. I've been shooting IDPA since '98 and am sure that I've never seen it anywhere. For damn sure not in Oxford.

[Fireant]

Well then all glasses other than those with a perscription should be against the rules. they are only used in competition. Still a totaly BS call from the SO. Show me where the scotch tape company markets the stuff for race or competition use.

[michaels]

What would a “reasonable “ person do….I shoot with a guy who gets procedurals for not using cover, he tries, but his arms are really short, he’s got a little bit of a gut, but he’s just built funny, maybe 300lbs on a 5-9ish frame. He has to stick more than 50% of his body around cover to stick his stubby little arms around cover. I never call him for cover, he’s trying as hard as he can to stay behind walls and such. Lots of Safety Officers call him for cover violations, and they do it without thinking about the entire situation. This rule thing gets carried to far sometimes. Some people will scream that we must follow the rules to the letter, some will say “oh well”, it doesn’t apply to me so I don’t care. Here we say you can’t wear a knee pad on the outside of your pants, but you can wear one on the inside, now what’s up with that?

Somebody figures out a way to do something different/faster, they are labeled a Gamer, like there’s something wrong with thinking smart…yup it’s only a game….

Maybe rule #2 should have been, Use Common Sense....

michaels

[Mike P]

What would a “reasonable “ person do….I shoot with a guy who gets procedurals for not using cover, he tries, but his arms are really short, he’s got a little bit of a gut, but he’s just built funny, maybe 300lbs on a 5-9ish frame. He has to stick more than 50% of his body around cover to stick his stubby little arms around cover. I never call him for cover, he’s trying as hard as he can to stay behind walls and such. Lots of Safety Officers call him for cover violations, and they do it without thinking about the entire situation. This rule thing gets carried to far sometimes. Some people will scream that we must follow the rules to the letter, some will say “oh well”, it doesn’t apply to me so I don’t care. Here we say you can’t wear a knee pad on the outside of your pants, but you can wear one on the inside, now what’s up with that?

Somebody figures out a way to do something different/faster, they are labeled a Gamer, like there’s something wrong with thinking smart…yup it’s only a game….

Maybe rule #2 should have been, Use Common Sense....

michaels

Well you have a good point about the use of common sense, but just as sure as you make an exception for a person who is "built funny" or otherwise challenged, somebody else will cry foul when they are not given the same interpretation.

The problem is (if it is a problem) on the one hand some folks don't want scripted stages that stifle their creativity, then on the other you have the IDPA purposes and principles which call for sound tactics, (oh there is that word again) order of target engagement, use of cover shooting dry etc. Trying to square the two can be difficult for the SO, MD and the shooter, es[ecially when all self defense tactics are not universally accepted as sound.

Yes, its just a game and as such it has rules. There are some that I don't like too. Its sort of like traffic laws, some I think are stupid, and useless and put there to annoy me. When I get caught breaking one of them the cop gets to be a jerk for enforcing it even though I know what the rules are.

Mike

Mike

Edited November 15, 2006 by Mike P

[Joe D]

Where has all the common sense gone? All this sport needs are more Range Nazis. SOs that are that picky need to get a life. 80% of the folks I know that shoot IDPA use a "competition only gun". IDPA is just a game. Repeat, just a game not training.

If I see someone like your large friend making a good effort to use cover but is challenged by his body type then he will never get a call from me.

I could care less if someone puts tape on his glasses. If that allows him to out shoot me then I just need to practice harder. Tape on the glasses can be a hindrance also. Cuts down on your field of vision.

SOs that make calls like that are usually a little short between the ears and other places.

[NEPAKevin]

I am afraid I would have demanded to see the MD and the AC if he was there....

Frank Glover, who is both the MD and AC, was there both days of the Cup and I would bet my left *@% that he would have addressed this question as any other in the straight forward no BS manner for which he is well known and respected had he actually been asked, face to face.

Have a nice day,

Kevin Schlier

Poconos, PA

[Bones]

Vlad,

Stop. I will FTDR you next time.

You can appeal to the Match Director as suggested - it will be a particularly efficient process at my match.

Frank,

Don't hold this against Viagra. I will do a better job of controlling him next time. He doesn't learn fast but he can learn. He really is a hoot to shoot and travel with - he just winks alot.

All,

Vlad is not "built funny", has not suffered a bomb blast, was not abused during childhood nor been victimized by niether space aliens nor IDPA SOs.

He is cheating. I see him often, in fact I traveled with him to the match he described, and I note that his eye glass lense is taped only at IDPA matches.

I told him he could wear a patch next time only if it were accompianied by a live parrot on his shoulder and a hook permanently replaced at least one hand.

Craig

Edited November 15, 2006 by Bones

[Mike P]

Where has all the common sense gone? All this sport needs are more Range Nazis. SOs that are that picky need to get a life. 80% of the folks I know that shoot IDPA use a "competition only gun". IDPA is just a game. Repeat, just a game not training.

If I see someone like your large friend making a good effort to use cover but is challenged by his body type then he will never get a call from me.

I could care less if someone puts tape on his glasses. If that allows him to out shoot me then I just need to practice harder. Tape on the glasses can be a hindrance also. Cuts down on your field of vision.

SOs that make calls like that are usually a little short between the ears and other places.

If an SO who enforces the rules is a range nazi, then what is an SO who doesn't, Mister Rogers with a timer?

You can't have it both ways, or else somebody will start whining about rules being enforced in an inconsistent manner.......again.

If MD's want to grant special dispensations at club matches, I say go for it. At state level and up they need to enforce the rules, all of them, whether they agree with them or not.

If you think that they are too strict, petition Bwana Wilson to change them.