610 And Flat Primers

[anomad]

Hi folks, I have a 4" 610 that I have shot very little.

At the range today I put about 50 rounds through it, mostly 40 and a few 10mm. Both with near starting loads of HS-6 from Lyman's 48th, 165 jacketed bullets (don't have the exact amount handy).

Had one new Starline 10mm case split and some seriously flat primers. Recoil on all shots fired was rather mild, of course the 10mms pack a little more punch. I have been reloading for years and never experienced anything like this. I have reloaded a bajillion .40 for my bottom feeder.

Do 610's have a way of slamming the primers that other guns do not? I know its not always a repeatable sign of high pressure. I had a .357 that would flatten cowboy loads. The split case could be an anomoly, but it has me spooked. To be on the safe side next round I will start below minimum.

[sargenv]

Hi folks, I have a 4" 610 that I have shot very little.

At the range today I put about 50 rounds through it, mostly 40 and a few 10mm. Both with near starting loads of HS-6 from Lyman's 48th, 165 jacketed bullets (don't have the exact amount handy).

Had one new Starline 10mm case split and some seriously flat primers. Recoil on all shots fired was rather mild, of course the 10mms pack a little more punch. I have been reloading for years and never experienced anything like this. I have reloaded a bajillion .40 for my bottom feeder.

Do 610's have a way of slamming the primers that other guns do not? I know its not always a repeatable sign of high pressure. I had a .357 that would flatten cowboy loads. The split case could be an anomoly, but it has me spooked. To be on the safe side next round I will start below minimum.

Hmm.. that's kind of a tough one to diagnose. First thing I would do is check powder weight to be certain that what you want to be throwing is the actual weight you want. I've had cases where I set my loader to throw a load, only to have it go up by about .2 to .3 gr after I've already loaded 20 or 30 rounds. But if it's a starting load, it really should not be flattening primers. It could be possible that you picked up a batch of primers susceptible to flattening and I'd maybe try a different batch or brand. Case splits are common for me and more common if I use Nickle plated brass. It apparently matters not one iota if the ammo is low or high pressure (minor or major) and that applies to 40 and 10 mm brass. I've not had any primer flattening at all in my 610-2, that goes with something as light as wax loads with a primer only up to full house 200 gr magnum type loads utilizing Long shot and/or H110.

Vince

[revchuck]

I can't address the case split, except to wonder if maybe you got cases from a bad lot. I'd call Starline and talk to them.

As for the primers, I'm wondering if the problem might be headspace. I have four .45s - a Gubmint Model, a Commander, a M22-4 and a 1917. I use the same ammo in all of them. The Gubmint Model, with a GI National Match barrel with generous headspace, flattens primers with any of my handloads (and I stick with current data for them), while the tight-chambered Bar-Sto barrel in my Commander leaves the same loads with nice, rounded primer edges. The two round guns are in between.

ETA: The above ammo used Federal 150 primers.

Edited October 23, 2006 by revchuck

[dajarrel]

It has been my experience with my 610 and 625 that the primers seem to flatten more than in the bottom feeders. I use Federal primers only in my revolvers, which are softer, and cannot speak to what the winchester, CCI or others may do.

I have literally shot the same load from both bottom feeder and revolver and the autoloader will not flatten the primers and the revolver does.

Back off on the load and run it across a chrono. If the speed is about the advertised rate, and all I had was the flattening of the primers, I would shoot it with confidence.

As with all reloading issues, YMMV. Be careful and don't take chances.

FWIW

dj

[10mmdave]

Hi folks, I have a 4" 610 that I have shot very little.

At the range today I put about 50 rounds through it, mostly 40 and a few 10mm. Both with near starting loads of HS-6 from Lyman's 48th, 165 jacketed bullets (don't have the exact amount handy).

Had one new Starline 10mm case split and some seriously flat primers. Recoil on all shots fired was rather mild, of course the 10mms pack a little more punch. I have been reloading for years and never experienced anything like this. I have reloaded a bajillion .40 for my bottom feeder.

Do 610's have a way of slamming the primers that other guns do not? I know its not always a repeatable sign of high pressure. I had a .357 that would flatten cowboy loads. The split case could be an anomoly, but it has me spooked. To be on the safe side next round I will start below minimum.

Where you using a moonclip when you tried these loads ??

I only ask because I've seen what you describe shooting ammo out of moon clipped guns

without the clip.

As far as the split case, check all the cases that you've fired for any case split starts,

back when I first started with the 10mm I had 2k cases of 10mm Starline that only lasted for

2 reloadings, like it's been stated, best to talk to Starline

[anomad]

Thanks guys, my chrono is brand new, haven't even used it! So I didn't think of using it to help diagnose, but that should be quite telling. And shooting the same load in bottom feeder and revolver should help also.

It was only 100 pieces of brass so I am thinking the split case is a fluke. I'll shoot the rest of them and keep an eye out for problems before I call Starline. I have been very happy with their brass in general. I need a macro enable camera and I will post a picture or two.

Edited October 23, 2006 by anomad

[Guninhand]

Hi folks, I have a 4" 610 that I have shot very little.

At the range today I put about 50 rounds through it, mostly 40 and a few 10mm. Both with near starting loads of HS-6 from Lyman's 48th, 165 jacketed bullets (don't have the exact amount handy).

Had one new Starline 10mm case split and some seriously flat primers. Recoil on all shots fired was rather mild, of course the 10mms pack a little more punch. I have been reloading for years and never experienced anything like this. I have reloaded a bajillion .40 for my bottom feeder.

Do 610's have a way of slamming the primers that other guns do not? I know its not always a repeatable sign of high pressure. I had a .357 that would flatten cowboy loads. The split case could be an anomoly, but it has me spooked. To be on the safe side next round I will start below minimum.

I've been shooting 10mm in a Glock20 for 12 yrs and a 610 for 3 yrs, mostly at a 180 power factor. I always have flat primers.

[cheetahs]

Hi Guys

my 610 flattens ferderal 100 primers on a regular basis

my load is same as auto load but in rev I can reduce the load

about .4-.5 grains (no slide to operate)

one thing I have noticed from primer preasure signs

is some firining pin bushing errosion

I have changed it once in three years.

hope this helps..

Run thru crono this will get you in the right power

Gary

[Mover480]

Try Fed 200 primers. They are a little harder than the 100's, and they solve the flat primer/blowby/bushing erosion problem.

[357454]

Take a look at the recoil shield around your firing pin, mine is slightly rounded and does flatten the primers more than a gun with a flat shield. Also the 610 is very sensitive to seating depth, just a few thousandths makes quite a bit of difference.

[anomad]

Hi folks, thanks for all the help. I was able to go out and shoot over the chrony a coupla few weeks ago and thought I would check back.

The same 155 and 165gr loads shot about 1050fps out of the 4" 610 and just a little faster out of my Glock 22. Slightly warmer than I was looking for, but well within the velocities listed in my data for a moderate charge of HS6.

Not an issue of loading too hot, the shape of the area around the firing pin is to blame.

[Chuck Merriam]

My 610 4" will flatten some Federal pistol primers using a load of 5.1gn n320 and OAL of 1.220" Just some are flattened and some are fine. I shoot 40 brass mixed. The bullets are 180gn MGHP. This is the same load I shoot in my S_I's that chrono at 170 PF. The revolver only losses 10fps on the chrono. Hope this helps. Can you non-bottom feeder guys tell me why I would want to use such a slow powder as HS-6?

[10mmdave]

Hi folks, thanks for all the help. I was able to go out and shoot over the chrony a coupla few weeks ago and thought I would check back.

The same 155 and 165gr loads shot about 1050fps out of the 4" 610 and just a little faster out of my Glock 22. Slightly warmer than I was looking for, but well within the velocities listed in my data for a moderate charge of HS6.

Not an issue of loading too hot, the shape of the area around the firing pin is to blame.

Anomad, not sure if you've read about the FP bushing issue in other posts but I flatten

mine flush to the recoil shield, don't know what S&W was thinking.

I have a 5 inch 686 that mushroomed the primers so bad a few would fall out of the spent

brass stoned down the bushing dome and it's been fine ever since.

The backed out primers would get hung up also making the trigger pull iffy.

Course none of the above address' the cracked brass question.

[anomad]

Course none of the above address' the cracked brass question.

I think the cracked brass was a fluke. The 10mm loads were moderate also, I forget the exact velocities.

chmerr,

I use HS6 because it is such a versatile powder and fills up the cases nicely so its easy to see a double charge. I mostly use it in auto cartridges, 9mm, 40, 10. I also use it for cowboy loads.

[Chuck Merriam]

Thanks....I was just wondering if there was some secret you wheely's were keeping from us bottom feeders!