Rob Bagnato Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Do I get to keep the Ginsu knives after my Springco takes a crap? Well after that comment since they are used (the knives) I guess so. Hey I run a Sprinco in my Open and Limited guns and have been nothing but completely satisfied. To each his own if you don't like the way it feels or works send it back. I have owned plenty of guns and parts that I only wish had that kind of a gaurantee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangin' Chad Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Sounds like simple principles of mechanics. Make since to me. I'm ordering one right now, besides, its only the price of shipping to experiment if unhappy. THC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Sounds like simple principles of mechanics.Make since to me. I'm ordering one right now, besides, its only the price of shipping to experiment if unhappy. THC Post a link where to get one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 http://www.sprinco.com/distributors.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Thank you. BTW, now that I looked at the sight, I can report I also bought one a few years back for my Beretta 92FS. It started having problems of failing to return to battery when I installed it. Took it out, problem gone. returned the thing to Brownell's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 From reports here, they are a different company now than they were a few years ago. Different management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Thought I'd post the results of some tests I did, in case anyone is interested: Last year, I used a Sprinco and decided to try different set-ups to see which would be fastest for me. I am shooting a 40 cal Edge. Today I completed about 2 months worth of testing on my gun set-up. Over the last few weeks and today, I tried different guide-rod set-ups (Comonolli standard; Comonolli tungsten; single and double buffs on both; steel STI; tungsten STI; an aluminum guiderod; and a Sprinco) with different weight bullets, buff set-ups, and different recoil spring set-ups. I tested 165 and 180 grn MG bullets today loaded at major PF. The winner - the Sprinco. Here's why: The reason I decided to try setups other that the Sprinco I had been using is because I wanted to shorten (or speed up) the stroke of the slide with the idea that I can get a consecutive shot off faster if the slide would return to battery faster. Over the last couple of weeks, I have been using a Tungsten Comonolli Framesaver GR with the standard rear buff and double front buff. I liked how fast the slide returned to battery with this setup. However, I discovered that I could not track the sight well with the Framesaver. The recoil pulse with the Framesaver (and the others) seemed to be very sharp and up to 11:00 O'clock. This recoil pulse caused the gun to rise toward my left eye, the one I have to block with tape because of left-eye dominance - another problem. Today, I found that this caused me to take more time to re-acquire the front sight in order to get a good hit. I noticed that this condition caused me to rush my shots when shooting with a timer and the results were that my groups sucked - the best group I shot at 20yds (medium speed) was 14 shots all over the A-zone and one C. I couldn't get a small group to save my life. So after shooting some with the Comonolli set-up, I installed the Sprinco. I have it setup with an 11lb spring and 2 coils cut off. My first shots with it made me feel like the slide was moving VERY slow. What blew me away was that my splits were actually faster with the Sprinco set-up than with the Comonolli. I then tested the setup with the 165s and 180s and discovered that regardless of what weight bullet I am shooting, the sight tracks vertically and returns to the exact same spot with the Spinco - a condition that I could not duplicate with the others setups no matter how slow I shot or how hard I concentrated or gripped the gun. My groups at 15, 20, and 25 yards were significantly smaller with the Sprinco than with the other set-ups (a fist-sized 15 shot group from 20yds shooting rather fast). So, I concluded that the time I saved by having a faster slide seems to be lost in the time it is taking me to re-acquire a decent sight-picture. Over the last few weeks, I have shot matches with the Framesaver (both tungsten and steel) and my points have been aweful. I thought this was due to my being impatient with the sights - which I guess it was because I was not waiting to get a decent sight picture. Another thing I discovered was that after I shot about 100 rounds with Sprinco, I no longer had my usual deathgrip on the pistol. I guess because I was not fighting to control the pistol. Now these benefits could be a result of the fact that I used this setup last year and I am used to it. That is very possible. The bummer is that I really like the feel (weight and balance) of the gun with the tungsten Framesaver GR and like how fast the slide feels with the double buff. For some reason, I seem to index the pistol with a little more stability having the weight of a tungsten GR than without. But I decided I have to go with the setup that lets me get the sight picture quicker. My hits really seem to show the benefit. Just thought I would share my time-consuming and expensive test results with anyone who is interested. Take care. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Nice report Jack. I never had any desire to try a Springco. Now I'm resisting the urge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I have THE springco customer service story for anyone looking to buy one. It did happen a couple of years ago thoguh, and I am willing to forgive and forget. As for me personally, I shoot better now with a straight guide rod. Same thing other folks are saying; the gun recoils cleaner and more consistently without the gadgets. All that being said, Jim Shannahan is a straight shooter, stands behind the products he carries, and Springco seems to have an improved product available for those wanting to try it. Anyone with any questions feel free to contact me directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bagnato Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 This is just a case of a bad experience. Not 100% sure were the communication broke down. I have been using Sprinco's for years. Yes, they need to be loctited. The original idea was that the shooter would be able to tune the sub-spring to his load/gun etc. That's originally why they weren't loctited. The problem is that some people don't want to be bothered or don't know how.(pick) Either way it's fine. Looking forward if people are out there using it trouble free and even Eric Graufel is using it. Has to say something. The guide rod does have to be tuned somewhat as any part that goes into a race gun. Probably too late to do any good but, have you called Jim Shanahan or Alan @ Sprinco. I am sure they will get you squared away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 No, I kinda gave up. I have spoken with Jim, and like I said, he seems like a straight shooter, no ill will towards him at all. On the other hand,Sprinco really burned me and after I tried like hell to stick with them. I have really begun to simplify things for consistency and reliability, and sticking with a regular "one piece" is part of that theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dirtypool40, The condition you described about the Sprinco locking up in the compressed position is identical to one I saw with a recoil master. In this case, the pistol had too large of a barrel link causing the barrel to press on the guiderod when out of battery and then apparently causing the RM to bind in the recoil plug. This brand new Edge would not even work with a standard guiderod and plug. A change of link pin and everything has worked fine. Is yours a custom or factory gun? If custom, who built it? Did all of your Sprincos fail in the same pistol? Also, are you in Florida? Will you be going to the Florida State this year? I would be very interested in seeing the Sprincos that broke on you. Can you bring them there or maybe post some pictures? This has me intrigued. Later, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Jack, I am OCONUS right now TDY in Bolivia, but I should be home mid April. I am in FL and will be happy to bring the pieces I still have. To answer your other questions, the gun was a custom built up on an SV PGK (slide, frame, barrel fit). Other than the Springco problems it ran like a raped ape for about 65k before I sold it back in the Fall. Also, I can't see how link issues could cause a Springco to unscrew. Maybe the last episode with the kink, I could buy that, but by that time the gun had over 50k through it with no other breakage. I know I sounded like a loony on a rant, but I like the best gear, am willing to pay for it, and want it to work so the last thing I think about in a match is the gear. As an aside; after I sold my pistol last Fall I had to borrow the "Link Breaker 2000" from a buddy to shoot the FL Open. Gosh, did that suck!!! It ate a link every 2k or so, and shot 6" groups at 20y, ran only during practice and tore a whole in my hand. Good equipment is worth the money, bad equipment ain't worth shiite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Eric, I'm not sure how this matter is best resolved. I remember the whole event as if it were yesterday... almost to the point that I have nightmares about it (but not quite). At any rate in your shoes, I don't know that the situation is one that can be resolved, however I have boasted about Sprinco all of my shooting life and I guess as they say..." its time to put my money where my mouth is" Its public knowledge that Sprinco had trouble under the former management. Alan has always been the money behind Sprinco since it was purchased from Chandler Arms. The original engineer of the product line remained on board for several years to expand the product line. At the same time the "Incident" was unfolding, Alan had a heart attack followed 48 hours later by a mild stroke. Bad deal, made even worse by other matters. Many of the problems were compounded by the machine shops inability to produce product in a timely manner. Despite my position as the Industry Rep, and a Distributor for Sprinco, I have not had product to sell for almost 18 months, at the Florida match in Jacksonville when you were told to see me by Alan's wife, I didn't have product to sell, or even display... I got product last minute to put on the prize table and that has been for the most part the case ever since then and that is almost 2 years! One fact in all of this that has not been pointed out, is that Alan asked if the package appeared damaged, it didn't, so no way to make a claim with UPS. The order was invoiced as a full order of a guiderod and 5 springs. I'm not going to try and take the side of either party in this case it seems that both sides got screwed. I shoot with a Sprinco guiderod, that is no secret to anyone, and I believe in both the product line and the company. For many people and with the right tuning the system runs great. In 2003 some 2000 guiderods systems were sold, only 11 were returned for a refund, 30 were returned as the wrong part, mis-fit, or tuning adjustments for specific firearm differences. That is a pretty good rate of return by any standards. In a perfect world there would be a "win/win" solution to this mess. My solution would be: If you will try a guiderod that I provide, test it and shoot it hard, work with me to tune it to what you want your gun to feel like if after a given amount of time you are still not satisfied, I will replace the dollar amount you are out for the inferior systems you have encountered so far, in product from Advanced Performance Shooting. That doesn't include rods that came off prize tables, or that were given to you, but whatever ones you bought. I don't want it to appear like "Hush Money", I want you to know that just as I feel Sprinco stands behind the product, so do I. I'm sold on the product and hate to see shooters who have had bad results, and work hard to resolve those problems with and without the backing of Sprinco direct. The system won't work in every gun, nor will every shooter be able to benefit from the results the system will provide. But bad advertisement for Sprinco is in effect bad advertisement for APS, and if I can work to resolve that then it is time well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Jim, I have never purchased anything from you (although I fondle those Rudy's at every match). But I know several peole who have purchased from you and have been very pleased. I must say that after reading your above comments that if you mean what you say, I am VERY impressed! Very good post. I know Eric personally, and he's a stand-up guy who does not mind paying extra to have the very best. I hope you guys can come to an agreement that is mutually beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Paul, I know Eric as well and truly believe that the circumstances surrounding the entire fiasco are unfortunate to say the very least. I believe that both Eric and Alan are stand up characters, and know that both believe in the side of the story that they are on. In the end no one is better off for the mis-hap. Certainly no company would want a customer regardless of status, to be as unhappy as Eric is. Much less a well liked Master Class competitor as active as Eric is both in the forums and on the range. The truth is that Sprinco went thru some very rough changes over the last few years, not to be used as an excuse but by way of explanation at least to a degree. I have faith in the product and the company enough to stake the reputation I have created for myself and my company on the current quality of the product and the results that can be achieved. If you want to try one, all you are out is shipping if it doesn't do what it is supposed to do, and I don't make a dime off the deal either way, like I said in the post, I have not had a guiderod to sell for about 18 months, I'm happy to tell you what spring combinations and set ups seem to work the best for any desired end result, and the testing has to be done on the range, so in the end its still powder getting burnt and rounds going downrange that makes most of us smile. Just to let others know how serious I am about my support. If any one buys one and has to return it for a refund because it just didn't work like it was supposed to, Alan will refund the full product price within 60 days, and I will refund the shipping costs they are out. All you gotta do is talk with me and try to set it up by my recommendations, if it doesn't work, all your out is some time and a little aggravation. How could anyone go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 That about covers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I don't know why I didn't get my usual notification on this topic, but I apoligize for taking so long to respond. Jim, you are right about the original UPS package and invoice, it was for five springs, a rod and a reverse plug, as I had discussed with Alan. He had asked what spring weight I shot, said he would send four and then said he would throw in a fifth in a different weight he wanted me to try. I just didn't go into all that detail in my rant. When it first happened I actually thought he had sent one spring separately and the other stuff would arrive en masse. Up until the part where he started calling me a thief and a liar I was honestly impressed that he was going to send all this stuff to me. In hind site I should have opened the package while the UPS driver was there. After that, and with the health problems that ensued, things went downhill fast. Like Paul, I too am very impressed with Jim Shannahan. It's isn't your problem, Jim never was, and I never meant to make it yours, but you stepped up and are trying to fix it. Impressive, and you would get my business on that reputation alone. Bottom line is If I am willing to whine I should be willing to let you fix it, I make a point of not bitching about something just to hear myself bitch. The boss I am sitting in for in Bolivia has returned and with a little luck I will be in town in time to come out to the state match. I'll come see you there, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 good (civil!) exchange, good information. Have we heard all the evidence so that I can close the thread? We usually don't leave single-topic threads like this one open indefinitely... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangin' Chad Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Don't close it...please? I just purchased one and stuck it in my open gun. So far I love it, but I've only put 3 to 4 hundred rounds through it so far. Let me get a couple thousand through it and I'll post my results. THC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I concur, please don't close it. After all my emphatic bitching I would like to chance to come back next week and say some nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'd look to leave it open. But, I don't care to read about the back-and-forth of any particular customer service issues. I just want to hear about the equipment option and how it works for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 fine, we'll leave it open. But, as Flex says, let's zero in on equipment information, the customer service issue at hand has been noted, is important, but in the discussion has also run its course. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 If anyone has thought about trying out a sprinco I would suggest giving it a try. I have been running a recoilmaster with a heavy bottem and a light spring. It runs really good but it would not let me run 29+1 in my big stick. So today I tried out a Sprinco. Tried diffrent sping wieght's and length's. I was still having problems getting 29+1 to work. So I tried what I thought would be to heavy a 9lbs spring. I ended up cutting it to the same length as the RM spring. I started shooting and was saying to myself man this sucks. Then I started looking at the timer. Sub 2 bill drill's, I've never done clean before, 3 targets 1 yard apart 2 on each sub 2 sec bill drill distance, sub 5 (4.84 I think) el prez never done that before ( Thanks to Steve on some pointers). I still don't like the way the gun feels but it works. I'm going to try some 8lbs springs when I get them and will keep you up dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Jon, I think you'll like it with an 8. It (the Sprinco) takes a little getting used to as the timing and feel are significantly different. But as you've seen, it definitely helps in keeping the gun on target. Good luck. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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