Veteran Subcategories Never Recognized At Sanctioned Matches.

[micktom]

Page 52 of the rulebook has several sub categories that MAY be recognised- Most of them are recognized at all matches. I have yet to attend a Sanctioned match where Veterans as listed in the RB (High Military Veteran) "Ex Military,retired or discharged" are recognized. Before anyone thinks I am a Trophy Hound I want you to know I am not a Veteran. I just recognize the fact that without them there would be no Lady Shooters or High Juniors or any other class . It is not even recognised at the Nationals-- at least according to the Application Form. This is truly a shame. While they served and fought and some never make it to Senior Status due to injuries and so on. Never forget it was those who Served who saved us from Non Gun-Owner Status. Lets show a little appreciation for those who put their lives on hold for the rest of our Nation.

Edited August 11, 2006 by micktom

[FTDR]

i am not a veteran as well, but it appears in this PC world a veteran gets no respect but from other veterans, it is one of the most dangerous jobs ever, but in contrast the most thankless job in our screwed up society

i cannot believe this has recieved 70 hits but not one reply, i bet if it was about firefighters it would be different

[marinegrunt]

Micktom, Thank you for your sentiments, While i would probably not be high veteran, It would be nice for Veterans to be Recognized, and at what cost $20 for a single plaque or trophy. Might actually grow the sport.

[Chills1994]

+10

I am a veteran. It would be more of an incentive to sign up for major matches if there was a High Veteran Trophy. Plus, some vets would see that as kind of a pat on the back recognizing military service.

Yep, FTDR, I was wondering too, how long it would take for somebody to respond to that initial post.

For some topics, you might actually get a better response on the weekends. Some folks don't have a lot of free time during the week(nights) to surf the forum. These folks may have more free time on the weekend to respond to something like that.

With the current ongoing war, hopefully as things wind down, and more (younger) active duty personnel get out of the service and become veterans, I am sure there will be plenty who want to get into shooting competitions.

+1 to marinegrunt, then, having a vet category will make the sport grow.

[rvb]

Great idea!

Would provide an oportunity at all matches to say "thank you!" to all vets.

rvb

(not a vet)

ps. THANK YOU to all vets!

[JD45]

It would be cool to see a veteran's award. I wish more of them would come out and shoot.

On the other hand, many of them may already be shooting, we just aren't aware.

[micktom]

BTW has anyone here been to a Sanctioned Match that had a Veterans Award. If so While I am not a Veteran I would try to attend that match for sure. If you are wondering why I Give A Dang I had family members that gave ALL. One of which taught me to love Guns and Shoot when I was a boy. I no longer have my Cousin but I cannot pick up a firearm without missing him.

Edited August 11, 2006 by micktom

[Ferrell Spicer]

I think it is a great idea and I don't mean to just give out the award....award it when everyone is paying attention so as to really recognize what it means. I don't know that it would draw more of the veterans that are coming back right now in or not. I friend of mine recently came back from Bagdad and still thinks the shooting we do is cool, but he told me that he has pulled the trigger enough for a while. I hope that one day he changes his mind, but I don't expect it. I just tell him THANKS and maybe buy his lunch occasionaly. He's a solid individual.

Edited August 11, 2006 by Ferrell Spicer

[Flexmoney]

Have DD214...will travel.

[John Dunn]

Sorry to throw ice water on the thread, but I'd eliminate all categories. I don't care about high senior, super senior, junior, law enforcement, veteran, teacher, fire fighter, etc. If you need a lame plaque to get you out shooting, you probably aren't going to stick with the sport for long.

There are hundreds of worthy things that don't need to be recognized at an awards ceremony, which are generally way too long anyway. Reminds me of the self-esteem movement where everyone gets a gold star for being special.

Humbug.

[micktom]

I have no problem with the elimination of ALL categories, but it is not going to happen. I am not advocating Creating another category, it already exists. (If you are an IDPA shooter and if you have a rule book read page 52.) If you don't shoot IDPA then concern yourself with what you do shoot and get better at it. But To compare the recognition of The One Veteran That Shot better than all other Veterans to Giving a Gold Star to everyone smacks of Circlefly targetdom. For explanation of Circle fly please PM me If you don't want to compete for other classifications then don't. If Awards ceremonies are "Too Long, then leave early, Go take a nap. Go Home and finish kicking the Dog. Whatever Curmudgeons do get to doing it.

A lot can be understood about a person that has posted most often in "What I Hate." Is there anything you do like? Not that I GAS.i....

Edited August 11, 2006 by micktom

[Wakal]

Sorry to throw ice water on the thread, but I'd eliminate all categories. I don't care about high senior, super senior, junior, law enforcement, veteran, teacher, fire fighter, etc. If you need a lame plaque to get you out shooting, you probably aren't going to stick with the sport for long.

There are hundreds of worthy things that don't need to be recognized at an awards ceremony, which are generally way too long anyway. Reminds me of the self-esteem movement where everyone gets a gold star for being special.

My opinion exactly.

Second place means first loser. Everything after that is blatent sop to underdeveloped (but whiny) egos.

And yes, I have a stack of "LE" and "Military" trophies THIS high

But I'm a hell of a lot happier with actual "earned by actual finish against all others" than I am with all the "first place red headed left handed turnip twaddler using antique Romanian equipment from a holster made of Duct Tape and staples" statues.

I appreciate the sentiment, but...enough already. One person gets a gold star, the rest get to look at the results v. that winner.

Alex

[marinegrunt]

Ive never seen a Marine that had a deficiency of Self Esteem. The Few The Proud The Marines! Micktom, who had a post that was deleted apparently, has a valid point. He was not asking for a new classification just if we are going to recognize Law enforcement, High lady etc. it would make sense to show appreciation to a CLASS that already is spelled out in the Rule Book and that class happens to be the insurers of our Freedoms. Now I personally have fought for my country in Desert Shield/Storm. I have never shot good enough at an IDPA MAtch to rate the Veteran Trophy and it is highly likely that there are Master Class Veterans that would win it. I support recognizing Veterans Wherever I happen to run across them. They took at least 2-4 Years and laid their lives aside to Serve a Greater Good. I take umbrage at being compared to the "Everyone recieves a gold Star" mentality argument that has been used to "throw Cold Water on this thread" For my beliefs. Comparing Veterans to teachers etc. is insulting. Have you ever seen the Military go on Strike. As for recognizing Ladies and Seniors and Juniors we are actually honoring them for something they had nothing to do with, namely what they were born as and when they were born. All it takes to be a Senior is Stay alive long enough. Veterans had an input into what they became. And unlike Some of the Anti American Crowd (which refer to our fighting men and women as unable to find other jobs) I believe Veterans and Military are the Cream of the Crop. Delete all Categories Or Recognize all categories, at least at the national level.

For those who have fought for it Freedom has a Flavor the Protected never know.

We all have freedom I just enjoy mine a lot more.

[FTDR]

what does it take to qualify for side trophy categories?

high lady= born that way

high senior= live long enough

high law enforcement= at most an average of 480 hours of training, at least a security guard or auxiliary police

high military=achieved or attempted to protect our country, and way of life we all have learned to take for granted, a volunteered, underapreciated low paying job

i can understand not wanting to recognise a veteran, i myself am getting tired of living the easy life, and long for disparity{sarcasm}

Edited August 11, 2006 by FTDR

[Chills1994]

Please follow my stupid analogy for just a minute:

Shooting a major match and enjoying the company and cameraderie of like minded shooters = cake.

Winning a High Veteran Trophy = icing.

Would I eat a cake without icing?

You betchya!

Would I eat a cake with icing?

Heck yes, probably more voraciously than I would a cake w/o icing.

Does that make sense for you all?

As far as the "gold star to improve your self-esteem and boost your ego" comments, I think the whole gold star thing came about as a token economy. Much like the Boy Scouts, earn this, this, and this merit badge and get promoted to Star, and so on until Eagle Scout.

The gold star thing wasn't meant to boost self esteem or egos, but rather to externally motivate some people towards some goal, something they wanted or needed. Then to gradually phase that out so people would become internally motivated to do things.

I guess what I am getting at is: "What is your motivation to shoot at major matches?"

If a trophy is your "carrot on the end of a stick", that's Okay.

If you're a vet and possibly winning a separate Hi-Vet trophy is your motivation to come out and shoot at a major match, more power to you!

It benefits IDPA as a whole to have more shooters attend major matches. Even more so if it is a category already spelled out in the rulebook.

To step back and look at the bigger picture of things....the more shooters we have, then the more pro-gun voters we will have. And that, folks, is really truly the end game we are all "playing for".

Okay, I'll step off my soap box now, and go get some German chocolate cake. LOL

[Wakal]

Okay, I'll step off my soap box now, and go get some German chocolate cake

With icing

As much as I dislike the "left handed red headed turnip twaddler" school of 'awards', I agree with FTDR's point. It is in the rule book (unlike USPSA ), and it is one of the very few special awards that actually requires a CHOICE of some sort made by the shooter (well, the "high senior" does mean a choice to "not die" was made).

Alex

[Jane]

I don't know whether the 'Military' category is supposed to be just for current military...

But looking at the people registered for this year's Nationals, I count 5 guys listed as 'Military'.

Shooter #41 is also listed as industry and law enforcement.

#80 just as military

#131 as industry and military

#223 just as military

#224 as military and law enforcement.

I hate to assume... but unless the guys who list LE are currently serving as MPs it would sound as if they're retired military.

Last year they apparently only had 2 who listed themselves as military... but did single them out:

http://www.idpa.com/matchresults/2005_nati...litary_2005.pdf

Jane

[marinegrunt]

Page 52 paragraph 4 is as follows

Subcategories such as High Law Enforcement, High Lady, High Senior (Ages 50-64), High Distinguished Senior(ages 65 and older), High Press, High International, High Military (Active Military), High Military Veteran (ex-military, retired or discharged) and Most Acurate Shooter may be recognized at Sanctioned matches, but are not required.

end quote

According to the Application for nationals. EVERY Subcategory above is listed with one Quite notable exception Military Veteran. WHY did They leave this one out?

[Sam]

It really wouldn't hurt to recognize a few extra categories.

I hereby nominate the sub-category "Mothers". Isn't it high time we said thanks? After all, none of us would be here at all without mothers.

Then each match director could decide if they want to recognize High Mother (Hi Mom!), Top Mother, Mother of All Mothers, "Bad Mother!" or Wow That Mother Can Really Shoot!

[Steve Moneypenny]

Agreed, vets deserve the utmost respect! and they get it from me. They have done something i'm not willing to do that in the end benefit me.

As for a sub category where does it end? first off. i want a "high i gave up a job so i could shoot this year" category.

Military. Wellll lets see not sure if daniel horner has signed up be he would be Military and possibly Junior. Law Enforcement well for many years Scott Warren just took home 2 plaques.. as did Ernie Langdon for High Industry and Rob Letham (high industry) ... i signed up as industry, i teach basic pistol classes my largest source of income. who the hell isn't industry in a shooting match tha thas the time to win it?

Lady. and junior, and senior, i can see somewhat but it is a reward for what? so that makes ummm 3 trophies Daniel could win year at IDPA nats???? see where i'm going with this. DH is just an example of a very talented shooter. .... and talent always screws up the rewards for mediocracy.

[persona non grata]

oh boy steve moneypenny i went to your profile and then went to your site, read your bio, etc. you mite want to edit your last post because it comes off sounding very anti-Veteran. your bio says your an instructor. we shooters don't number very large. the military folks who could benefit from professional pistol instruction are an even smaller and tighter group. if word of your anti-Vet views ever got to them, kiss your chances of ever teaching this nation's elite good bye. oh and don't forget, these are groups with very deep pockets and more than willing to pay. (very easy to do with the taxpayers money).

also, your profile said you were born in '79, so that makes you about 26/27ish. you're also into martial arts got a CJ degree with a PE minor. sounds like you're in good shape. you should already be past that age to have signed up for Selective Service. if the PTB decided to have a draft, it sounds like you would get picked.

c'mon volks, we're not trying to pass a new rule in the rule book, now are we? we're just asking the MD's to add one little blank to a major match entry form and buy one more 20 dollar trophy.

is that too much to ask?

besides, if i happen to be at a match with julie goloski, i won't be walking away with the Hi-Vet trophy.

[CaseyJ]

Flex +1 on Have DD214 will travel the only rpoblem with my DD214 is it was given to me upon re-enlistment.

To all those who don't understand what I just said. In the military to re-enlist you must end your current sevice contract. When an person re-enlists they are given a DD214.. Honorable discharge paperwork.

I am Currently serving our nation defending our freedoms while other Fking idiots are voting them away! THANKS A**holes! I hate ppl that don't vote like gunowners when they own guns.

I hope to see this Category recognized in future matches and will make sure it gets recognized at my club!!

Reminder to all The 3rd Annual Courage Classic will be held At Kitsap Rifle And Revolver Club on Sept 16-17th. All proceeds go to Charity. Itis an IPSC style match with MOre info to follow at Http://www.Gunsafety.org

[Flexmoney]

Folks,

This topic is now CLOSED.

And, here is why...

I have had to come in here twice now and clean this topic up. Both times, the (different) posters choose to attack an individual...mostly because that individual didn't agree with their position. Folks, this is a discussion forum. The rules here demand posting with respect. You can disagree with somebody's opinion...and respectfully talk that out. You cannot go after that person on this forum.

I should also point out, that...both times...the aggressors have been mistaken in their assumptions. I'd vouch for either one of the guys that got sat upon in this thread.

Kyle F.

Forum Administrator