Anyone Training With A .22 Kit?

[kdmoore]

Just thinking that I could shoot a lot more lead if it was 2 cents a round vs 20. I'm wanting to work on target to target transitions/hose them up stages with the idea to get more proficient with my Simmons at the 1.5 setting.

Anyone training with one?

Any suggestions?

Questions I'm thinking about...

drop in kit

-allows use of my exact set up

-cienar allows higher cap mags

-but will the .22 cause a bunch of lead fowling, extra cleaning, etc ...

Vs a dedicated upper that I could mount a second Simmons on.

-Rifle will feel different in handling due to diff handguard, bbl length/weight, etc.

-there will be no difference in recoil between a .22 and my compensated rifle, thanks to JP my rifle shoots like a .22

-might be ok as I'm really just wanting to improve my use of the Simmons and see how far I trust pure point shooting.

If I use a dedicated upper, I could even dedicate a lower to avoid all the changes (I know it's ok, but those pins go into Aluminum ). If so, would it be worth buying another JP trigger to drop in (this lower is my house gun, I actually prefer to keep the heavy stock trigger on it, but while I'm doing this I'll likely switch tools for HD).

Of course, I'd love to hear what units you all were using.

I heard a reference to a method to use the cienar(sp?) hicap mags in other units with some mods, anyone know about this?

Any other insights are welcome as well.

[Shawn Knight]

I have the Fulton armory Acutron 22 upper and I love it. I used it for High Power training but I don't shoot that anymore and it has been turned into a bench rifle for plinking(expensive but fun). It is very accurate, and uses the DPMS kit with a 22 LR barrel.

[chp5]

I have one of the CZ V-22 uppers and love it. My only beef is that it only has 10 round mags and extra mags cost $30.

I would shoot it a lot more if it had hi cap mags.

[ArnisAndyz]

I'm planning on putting a Picatinny rail and an EOtech (or bushnell Holosight) on my old 10/22 for practice. Manual of arms will be different then my tactical gun but at least I'll have 50 rounds to blast!

[smokshwn]

Instead of going the upper route with the limit of 10 round mags and spotty reliability I went the route of the 10-22.

RB Precision makes a stock for the 10-22 that mimics AR ergos. For the same price as an upper I have a dead reliable 10-22 for practice. I love it.

Here's a pic..

Edited July 19, 2006 by smokshwn

[kdmoore]

smokshwn, I had no idea. You've given me something else to mull over. I don't have a 10/22 (I have a marlin, and have bought 2 10/22's for my sons tho). I've been wanting to get another one anyways, this might be the excuse.

The sight showed a MWG. I have a 90 rounder for my AR that I really like, does anyone have experience with the 50 round 10/11 model? ArnizAndyz, is that how you get your 50 rounds? Does it work well?

chp5, that V-22 is the one that got me started to thinking about this. I really like the look/idea, but 10 round mags will not allow a lot of the kind of practice that I want to do. Wish I could find the source of converting the ciener mags ... don't remember what unit they were being converted to work with.

Also, I'm hearing that RRA is developing one with high cap mags to boot.

eta - ooops, I think it's DPMS that has halted sales to reconfigure their kit and add a hi cap option.

Edited July 19, 2006 by kdmoore

[smokshwn]

I put a bull barrel on mine (will be having it cut back and thinned a little its heavy) but if you went with a Wally World 1022, the RB stock, A2 buttstock, the simmons pro diamon, and mags you have a complete AR practice platform for 500 bones.

After pricing the uppers and mags this looked pretty good with the bonus that I don't need to be changing uppers to practice a litte.

[ArnisAndyz]

The sight showed a MWG. I have a 90 rounder for my AR that I really like, does anyone have experience with the 50 round 10/11 model? ArnizAndyz, is that how you get your 50 rounds? Does it work well?

I have a couple old Mitchell Drum Magazines which I got a long time ago. I think MWG used to be Michell (but I could be wrong). They look exactly the same, with the tear-drop drum design. They have metal feed lips and are still going strong. I think I paid alot less than what they are selling for now. I also have a bunch of the 25 rounders from butler creek and other manufactures that work ok. After a while the plastic lips get chewed up but thier cheap enough to get more, or get the ones with steel lips.

[rpmwfo]

Another option over the RB stock is the Rhineland arms stock. Similar ergonomics, but quite a bit cheaper than the RB. I think I picked up my Rhineland stock for about $70. Definitely a cheaper way to practice. With a 18" bull barrel, it weighs about what my AR does except it is a little bit more muzzle heavy.

Now I am waiting for the Clark trigger stuff to come in. The stock Ruger trigger just doesn't compare to my AR's trigger.

[benelli2]

One of the best years I ever had in three gun was one of the years I also shot the Chevy Sportsmans Team Challange and shot a ton of those little 22 bullets at those %#*!@#$$^@#^* darn little targets they use. Helped my three gun more than anything, go for the 1022 with the same optic U use and put a trigger in it, spend the rest on ammo, good ammo that shoots every time in that gun, working small targets at 50 -75 yards from all positions will make you rock the next three gun match

jc

[uscbigdawg]

I have a CZ .22 upper and love it. Like others my only gripe is the 10 round mags. Slows down practice a bit, but I've got a lot of them and that helps speed up practice sessions. Shoot a 100 hundred, load a hundred, drink water, etc.

I mulled over the RB stock for a long time. And went with the CZ only 'cause a deal presented itself. However, I will be getting one soon to build up a 10/22 I have laying around. Great excuse to finally dustoff all those 25 round mags and test out the loader doo-hickey.

Rich

[Dan Sierpina]

One of the best years I ever had in three gun was one of the years I also shot the Chevy Sportsmans Team Challange and shot a ton of those little 22 bullets at those %#*!@#$$^@#^* darn little targets they use. Helped my three gun more than anything, go for the 1022 with the same optic U use and put a trigger in it, spend the rest on ammo, good ammo that shoots every time in that gun, working small targets at 50 -75 yards from all positions will make you rock the next three gun match

jc

Jeff,

That makes a lot of sense. It doesn't seem that you need the exact same configuration. It's aquisition and trigger control. A worked over 10-22 should have a trigger weight similar to a worked over AR. With a brake on the AR, the recoil isn't even much more. I guess I should dust off the Ruger, pull out my .22 plate racks (with small aperatures) and get to work.

By the way, those little stars and diamonds are a challenge, no?

[BigDave]

I'm having the Weigand scope mount w/ a Weaver rail on my 10/22 milled with the M1913 Pic rail slot spacing so I can take any one of the 3 optics I use on my 3-gun AR and use it for practice. I have el cheapo Tasco 1 MOA dot that I've used before with movement drills and it is damn handy. But, I think it is important to mimick, at least visually, what you'll see behind the rifle on game day.

The other thing I plan on doing to making it to the local monthly Steel Challenge match and shooting the 10/22 in it. I've never heard anyone talking about that before, but I think it will be good practice on the clock.

[chp5]

Instead of going the upper route with the limit of 10 round mags and spotty reliability I went the route of the 10-22.

I agree with the 10 round mag issue. My CZ - V22 has been flawless though - even with cheap ammo.

[smokshwn]

When I was searching around it seemed the CZ was the only upper that didn't require any tweaking and rumor has it that there is a 30 round mag out there built in England I think it was. I would of bought one if I could have found one in stock, but while looking I found the RB stock and went that route.

As far as reliability goes with the other systems I didn't mean to slander any other product, but it sure seemed like there was a lot of information about fixes/tweaks/mag solutions out there.

[uscbigdawg]

Instead of going the upper route with the limit of 10 round mags and spotty reliability I went the route of the 10-22.

I agree with the 10 round mag issue. My CZ - V22 has been flawless though - even with cheap ammo.

Ditto.

Rich

[chp5]

Instead of going the upper route with the limit of 10 round mags and spotty reliability I went the route of the 10-22.

I agree with the 10 round mag issue. My CZ - V22 has been flawless though - even with cheap ammo.

Ditto.

Rich

Now if we only had hi cap mags for it . . .

[smokshwn]

IIRC I think it was Kurt Miller who had a line on hi cap mags for the cz uppers.

[kdmoore]

Ok, good stuff and I appreciate the help.

I've got it narrowed down to three paths ....

Get the ARlike stock and a 10/22 and mount Simmons on it.

Get a Ciener and a couple of hi cap mags

Wait and get a DPMS when they become available.

Yall have been a big help, I think I have a few more options than I started with

I think I'll mull it over for a bit, but I doubt I have the patience to wait for the DPMS solution....

[Garrett]

Now if we only had hi cap mags for it . . .

can the Ceiner mags be made to work in the CZ upper?

Edited July 23, 2006 by Garrett

[uscbigdawg]

Doubt it. Kurt has one I think. While I'd love to have high-caps, that's definitely a project that's way down the list of priorities. It'd be nice though if there was a way to take the DPMS mags or Cierner mags and modify them...and they be reliable.

Rich

[tverho]

The v22 is quite easy to modify to accept Ciener 30rd mags and the mags themself need a 10 sec handfile job. I try to ask our chief smith Jumikuula to send a description of the job. But basically some machining of the carrier and the cocking lever is all that's needed. And the mags need to have the opening at the back that lets the bolt pick the ammo enlarged a bit.

A (bad) photo of the modified carrier is on the bottom of

http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB/viewt...179&start=0

Here in Finland the most difficult operation is to obtain those 30rd Ciener mags.. And they are expensive as hell.

t tommi

[Platinum]

Just thinking that I could shoot a lot more lead if it was 2 cents a round vs 20. I'm wanting to work on target to target transitions/hose them up stages with the idea to get more proficient with my Simmons at the 1.5 setting.

Anyone training with one?

Any suggestions?

Questions I'm thinking about...

drop in kit

-allows use of my exact set up

-cienar allows higher cap mags

-but will the .22 cause a bunch of lead fowling, extra cleaning, etc ...

Vs a dedicated upper that I could mount a second Simmons on.

-Rifle will feel different in handling due to diff handguard, bbl length/weight, etc.

-there will be no difference in recoil between a .22 and my compensated rifle, thanks to JP my rifle shoots like a .22

-might be ok as I'm really just wanting to improve my use of the Simmons and see how far I trust pure point shooting.

If I use a dedicated upper, I could even dedicate a lower to avoid all the changes (I know it's ok, but those pins go into Aluminum ). If so, would it be worth buying another JP trigger to drop in (this lower is my house gun, I actually prefer to keep the heavy stock trigger on it, but while I'm doing this I'll likely switch tools for HD).

Of course, I'd love to hear what units you all were using.

I heard a reference to a method to use the cienar(sp?) hicap mags in other units with some mods, anyone know about this?

Any other insights are welcome as well.

Kenneth,

Hey, it's me. I've had the Ciener kit in my AR for almost a year now and it drops right in and there is no lead fouling (copper-clad rounds). I have two 10-round mags for it and declined to spend the bucks for a 30 - 10-rounders seem adequate for transitioning with a 5 target array.

One thing to note; the Ciener firing pin doesn't seem to like the JP trigger group I have in one lower, so I use it my other rifle (also with a Simmons 1-5) and standard GI trigger group and she goes bang every time. I suspect it the light hammer on the JP.

Joe

[Sam]

One thing to note; the Ciener firing pin doesn't seem to like the JP trigger group I have in one lower, so I use it my other rifle (also with a Simmons 1-5) and standard GI trigger group and she goes bang every time. I suspect it the light hammer on the JP.

Ditto on that! My Ceiner kit has been great. I've had it since 1996 I think. But when I put the JP group in, I began to have quite a few misfires too. Since I really like the JP trigger and the Ceiner .22 conversion, I can see no recourse except to build another lower with a stock trigger.

.......hey, then I can build another upper... and then I can just have anothr AR!

[Muzzleflash]

KDMoore,

I had the same thoughts as you regarding training with an AR in .22 LR. Accordingly, I recently bought a DPMS .22 upper and mounted it on a DPMS lower that I assembled from parts. I mounted an Eotech 552 on it because that is what I using now in our local competition. Last weekend, I shot about 100 rounds through it without a malfunction. It is very addicting and I would have shot more but ran out of time. At 50 yards it gave satisfactory groups with the standard trigger even without a rest. I shot Winchester and Federal Champion ammo and both shot well. It was easy to clean.

I intend to install a JP FCS so that I have the same trigger pull as I do with my competition rifle, and probably an Ace skeleton stock. I have not compared the weight of the DPMS .22 with my competition rifle, but they seem to be similar in weight and balance.

The current magazines hold 10 rounds but I do not consider that a problem for training. I have read that DPMS is revising their magazines to have a larger capacity. I am anxious to see what other changes they introduce, and will purchase some more magazines when they are available.

I recommend a dedicated .22 upper with a 1/16 twist barrel rather than a drop in unit. I have tried an M261 .22 conversion unit in a 1/7 upper and got a lot of leading in only 70 rounds. Another advantage to a dedicated .22 upper is you do not have to worry about cleaning a gas tube.

Gary