Vince Pinto Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Just wondering how often you guys have experienced stage briefings which described the gun ready condition as, say, "Condition 3" instead of saying "Magazine inserted, chamber empty"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Never in my short time in IPSC. ...and I would prefer it to stay that way. Save the Cooper / John Moses Browning worship for the funny papers, er, gun rags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Never in 14 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 It seems a bit redundant over here (outside US, or atleast in Holland). Sometimes it happens, but the RO still has to explain what it is because there are always people who don't know (which is very understandable, as not everyone read gun rags, especially outside the US) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeeDee Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Few years back is was used regulary nowadays RO's describe the situation. Let's keep it that way, less room for error. (Edited by JeeDee at 3:32 am on Dec. 12, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Never, and it's a bad idea. Be explicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 ""...and I would prefer it to stay that way. Save the Cooper / John Moses Browning worship for the funny papers, er, gun rags."" I am w/ Eric 100%. Now that we dare blaspheme the name of cooper, are we in danger of being struck by lightning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Lightening? No. A 230gr fmj? Well...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 No, you aren't likely to get struck by lightning, just some shooters who still hold Cooper in high regard for what he did for pistol shooting. Lots of people owe him a giant debt of thanks, but they rarely even mention him kindly. I guess all of you are too young to remember that. In this day of political correctness people waltz around the truth, but Jeff says what he means and means what he says; some of us like that. About the worst thing anyone can say about Jeff is that while he was not always right, he was never in doubt, and you always knew where he stood. Directness and straightforwardness used to be considered admirable traits. T.Roosevelt thought so, so did Harry Truman and the Founding Fathers. When the chapter finally closes on Jeff Cooper I think his legacy will be secure, how many of you can be sure of the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I wasn't dissing the Col. btw. Just making a little fun of Carlos. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 And I wasn't flaming you, just trying to remind some of the early posters that without Cooper this forum probably wouldn't be around, much less the pistol sports we enjoy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I haven't heard condition codes used in IPSC/USPSA or IDPA since I started shooting either, but they are standard terms in the Marine Corps, and we use them on the rifle and pistol range during requalification. "Load and make ready, and holster a condition 1 weapon" is valid terminology in the USMC. It also works because Marines are trained in the meaning of the terms and how to take their weapons from one condition to another. I would surmise that Col Cooper got the terminology from the Marines, way back in the day. Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 o.k., Vince, what's IPSC considering now that you are asking this question? A cursory search in the rule book has revealed no mention of *Condition x*.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Thanks for all the responses folks. The "conditions" are not recognised by IPSC, and they can't be, because they only apply to 1911 style guns. It's just that I've asked my rules colleagues to consider specifically prohibiting their use in IPSC because they're not clear enough, but here's a few stalwarts in Asia still using them. It's one of my pet peeves ........ (Edited by Vince Pinto at 2:03 pm on Dec. 12, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 "condition(insert your favorite #) are not part of ipsc terminology and it should stay that way. btw. cooper was one of many who got "practical shooting" going in the USA, he did NOT invent it SharonAnne L2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Sharon, Col. Jeff Cooper definitely did not invent Practical Shooting, but he was a great visionary for the sport, unfortunately, people of his character and vision are currently lacking in the hierarchy of IPSC/USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Quote: from Fossil on 2:04 pm on Dec. 12, 2002 Col. Jeff Cooper definitely did not invent Practical Shooting, but he was a great visionary for the sport, unfortunately, people of his character and vision are currently lacking in the hierarchy of IPSC/USPSA. Wow!! That's pretty harsh. I happen to be pretty pleased with the turn USPSA's leadership has taken as of late. I didn't mean to slam Cooper as much as I meant that folks should not have to be intimately familiar with him or his writings (or Marine Corps doctrine) to competently participate in IPSC. Cooper has publicly disavowed IPSC anyway, so that fact just makes the use of "Condition X" doubly out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 13, 2002 Author Share Posted December 13, 2002 Gee Fossil, as a member of the IPSC hierarchy, I appreciate your highly offensive (and anonymous) remark. Perhaps the view from the cheap seats is different but, if you think you can do a better job in IPSC or USPSA, step up to the plate. We need producers, directors and performers, not critics. (Edited by Vince Pinto at 9:48 pm on Dec. 12, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Back here they use the conditions of readiness and describe (complete with sign language ) what it is. What bugs me is how they describe condition 2 to be mag inserted, chamber empty...err, that's right, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 13, 2002 Author Share Posted December 13, 2002 Oliver, Chamber empty, magazine inserted is actually C3, and that's precisely why I hate hearing those terms in IPSC matches. In fact, the worst offender is the Philippines. Luckily some of the new key guys in the PPSA NROI are discouraging the use of "conditions", but there's still one or two stubborn old timers who won't change their ways. Sadly one of them is Ninong (English=Godfather) to my youngest son, so I've got to keep trying nicely to persuade him to change his ways, instead of beating him over the head with a Lapu-Lapu (English=a large fish). And I've really got to switch to decaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 mcoliver Condition 1 Cocked and locked, safety on, mag in, round in chamber. Condition 2 mag in pistol, round in chamber, hammer on half cock Condition 3 Chamber empty, mag in pistol, hammer down Condition 0 mag in Pistol, round in chamber, cocked, safety off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 I've always heard Condition 2 as being loaded mag in pistol, round in chamber, hammer all the way down, not on half cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 OK kids, this is EXACTLY why we should NOT be using the "Conditions" in IPSC. Nobody has an F'ing clue of what's what. Q.E.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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