Hk Production Racegun?

[dirtypool40]

Guys

saw this thing at the gunshow today. Seems like if it's legal it might be a serious contender for production. Searched on here and didn't find anything. Has anyone else seen it?

Killer LEM trigger. (like shooting a tuned LDA that turns into an SA after the first shot)

18+1

Factory supplied (and thus legal??) magwell.

Being HK they wanted $999 for it. But is it legal for USPSA, IPSC or both?

It's short enough for IPSC, but are enough made and are the PROD rules going to wake up and get tough / real?

Edited May 21, 2006 by dirtypool40

[Vlad]

Last I checked the Jet Funnel made it a no go in IPSC. There was some thread about that over at the other forum. I think they actually banned it by name, not my favorite way of doing things. As for USPSA .. I don't really know. Ask Amidon?

[dirtypool40]

easy enough, saved me a grand. cool gun though.

Too Bad it has no home.

[Vlad]

Limited Minor? Mag extentions, red dot, and 9major for open? I actually think it sucks that a gun manufacturer made a gun for our game and we banned it, but on the other hand I think magwells should be a no-no in production. But then again .. I also think the extended factory mags like those of the SP01 should be a no go.

[Kevin Kline]

Yeah Vlad,

But the ext factory mags for the SP01 still can only hold 10 rounds. Those mags only help the gun if it is shot in IPSC. As far as reloading and/or speed of reloading, actually, the CZ professional shooters prefer to shoot the smaller/shorter mags instead of the big ones, no advantage there.

[Bryan W]

Does anyone have a link to a picture of this new H/K pistol?

Thanks-

[splashdown]

Hey, first time I get to be the search nazi. This came up a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34693

[eerw]

Does anyone have a link to a picture of this new H/K pistol?

Thanks-

Bryan..here is photo of the funnel on a USP

HKUSP w/Jet Funnel

another photo

Edited May 21, 2006 by eerw

[Vlad]

But the ext factory mags for the SP01 still can only hold 10 rounds. Those mags only help the gun if it is shot in IPSC. As far as reloading and/or speed of reloading, actually, the CZ professional shooters prefer to shoot the smaller/shorter mags instead of the big ones, no advantage there.

I don't know. I've played with one and to me the bigger mags are easier to load into the gun, but I'm not prefessional shooter. I do agree that in USPSA it matters less.

[dirtypool40]

And here again, "if it walks like a duck" rules need some defining.

What is a magwell. I don't mean to sound like Bill Clinton, but why couldn't any manufacturer mold in a little bevel? Do they have to be impossible to load with a sheer face and .001" clearance like those evil glocks? Or could they be like the molded in funnels on SPS grips.

There has to be a happy medium, a DEFINABLE happy medium, instead of "nope, we didn't think of it, and we got our gun aproved first.....besides a goose is a kind of duck.". That's not objective or fair and that's one of the major nice parts of our game.

I say give them a box and some objective rules. If the manufacturer wants to make it easier to load, and bevel or tweak something, let it ride. Who knows, Glock might start listening to what people want and not just stick to the first and only version of stuff. (OK no Glock soap box, but damnit those things BITE me, and all it would take is a 1/4" beavertail, that would not effect ANY holster, and maybe a teensi weensi flair / bevel on their magwell, and you'd have something very shootable. Rant mode to standby.

[eerw]

And here again, "if it walks like a duck" rules need some defining.

What is a magwell. I don't mean to sound like Bill Clinton, but why couldn't any manufacturer mold in a little bevel? Do they have to be impossible to load with a sheer face and .001" clearance like those evil glocks? Or could they be like the molded in funnels on SPS grips.

There has to be a happy medium, a DEFINABLE happy medium, instead of "nope, we didn't think of it, and we got our gun aproved first.....besides a goose is a kind of duck.". That's not objective or fair and that's one of the major nice parts of our game.

I say give them a box and some objective rules. If the manufacturer wants to make it easier to load, and bevel or tweak something, let it ride. Who knows, Glock might start listening to what people want and not just stick to the first and only version of stuff. (OK no Glock soap box, but damnit those things BITE me, and all it would take is a 1/4" beavertail, that would not effect ANY holster, and maybe a teensi weensi flair / bevel on their magwell, and you'd have something very shootable. Rant mode to standby.

I don't think it would be a problem if it were molded in or part of the machined frame..the two specific examples where it was rejected is the Tanfoglio and the HK.

otherwise I am all for manufacturers to keep making better and tricker guns from the factory and save me all the time of having to do it..

[dirtypool40]

yeah me too...

I'm a big believer in "It's the guy not the gear" but I also thought part of sport was researching into what worked and actually made a difference. Otherwise, just issue us all approved gear and ammo (with restrictor plates, and six round magazines of course) at the LAMR command and let's slip into the IROC coma.

OK, now that I have turned off the "cranky" light, what if the magwell were like the S&A on a 1911. Specifically I'm thinking of the new S&W MP. What if that little plug had S&A like wing / extensions on it, and came from the factory that way?

Just thinking, but again we do need better rules, and then ALLOW the makers to game them and deliver better gear.

Edited May 21, 2006 by dirtypool40

[eric nielsen]

The [factory] bevel on Kevin's CZ SP01 is not bad at all - goes together pretty well with the factory 18-round mags. Easier to insert and easier to seat compared to factory Glock stuff. Not as fast as a single-stack with S&A but close.

On the other hand, the factory CZ ambi-safety is pretty sharp in several places. Kinda sux that Production rules don't let you bevel that - no advantage that I can see. Luckily there are no rules against Band-Aids.

[dirtypool40]

well I don't want to turn this into a bitch fest, but like the rest of us, I see the PROD rules as a sketchy, rough draft, that needs some refining and clarification, for objectivity and common sense.

kinda makes sense to me, that if the gun bites me through poor ergonomics testing or just shoddy QC, shouldn't I be allowed to make it safe to shoot without bleeding?

There's probably plenty of things that could be improved within the rules without the so called slippery slope. Hell, it already seems a few of the factories have slid to the bottom of that one.

Edited May 21, 2006 by dirtypool40

[bulm540]

I thought the Junior Coordinator shoots one. I was teh center of discussion at last years Michigan State Match.

[GeorgeInNePa]

well I don't want to turn this into a bitch fest, but like the rest of us, I see the PROD rules as a sketchy, rough draft, that needs some refining and clarification, for objectivity and common sense.

kinda makes sense to me, that if the gun bites me through poor ergonomics testing or just shoddy QC, shouldn't I be allowed to make it safe to shoot without bleeding?

There's probably plenty of things that could be improved within the rules without the so called slippery slope. Hell, it already seems a few of the factories have slid to the bottom of that one.

NO, No, No, that could turn this into an arms race and maybe cost upwards of 20 or 30 dollars. It would be better to tell you to shoot a gun that you didn't need to modify.

[Kevin Kline]

well I don't want to turn this into a bitch fest, but like the rest of us, I see the PROD rules as a sketchy, rough draft, that needs some refining and clarification, for objectivity and common sense.

kinda makes sense to me, that if the gun bites me through poor ergonomics testing or just shoddy QC, shouldn't I be allowed to make it safe to shoot without bleeding?

There's probably plenty of things that could be improved within the rules without the so called slippery slope. Hell, it already seems a few of the factories have slid to the bottom of that one.

NO, No, No, that could turn this into an arms race and maybe cost upwards of 20 or 30 dollars. It would be better to tell you to shoot a gun that you didn't need to modify.

[dirtypool40]

ok, thread bump and is there anywhere I can get definitive yeah or neah on this and other rules issues?

[GeorgeInNePa]

ok, thread bump and is there anywhere I can get definitive yeah or neah on this and other rules issues?

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35896

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/production_list.php

There are steps and criteria for a handgun to be accepted to the Production gun list.

1) 2000 made within a year Available to the general public for a year

2) No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell, the lateral internal width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine. The lateral width of the well to mean the narrow width where the mainspring housing is inserted, the lateral width of the magazine to mean the narrow side that faces the mainspring housing when inserted into the handgun.

3) Must meet the criteria listed in the appendix of the current rule book as well as that listed above.

4) The gun must be viewed by NROI prior to its acceptance.

5) A production gun approval form filled out and signed and returned to NROI.

[Chuck Anderson]

I've got one of the 9mm's sitting on my desk right now. H&K generously donated two to the Area 1 match this year. The 9mm will be used in a side match. Anyone that wants to shoot it is more than welcome. The best time on the side match will win the gun they shot it with. H&K also donated a .40 cal version that will go on the prize table that anyone can win.