9mm Powder Selection Question

[RifleShooter]

I posted this in the Beginner/Gun and Reloading Questions forum, and then I saw this one. Since the folks that are most likely to have good answers are not beginners, I thought I would post it here as well.

I have been a shooter for 20 years, but I am just getting into reloading. I have a Glock 19 which is my carry gun. In the gun I carry Federal Premium +P+ 124gr Hydra-Shok JHP ammo. I would like to match the performance of this ammo as closely as possible.

I have ordered Zero 125gr JHP bullets, I have lots of Winchester brass, and I will be using Federal primers. My question is what kind of powder to use. My chrono is on order, but is not here yet, so I don't have good stats on the Federal ammo yet.

With this information, can someone suggest a good starting powder? I can look up all sorts of loading data, but that is part of the problem. There is so much data that I am getting confused. At some point I will probably try making some softer shooting practice ammo, but for now my goal is to duplicate the performance of my carry ammo. I promise to start low and work my way up. I will not be loading anything until I get the chrono, since I have no other way to test anything.

Is that enough data to get some starting points? Thanks in advance!

Arnie

[HSMITH]

For the Glock you are limited by the mag length and that limits powder selections drastically .Power Pistol is my best suggestion. It will get you there without any nasty surprises. SR-4756 is another that you can push pretty hard in 9mm.

DON'T try to push Universal Clays or Blue Dot, both hit a point and go really nasty without warning.

I would also suggest that you get some loading experience under your belt before swinging for the fence. The difference in recoil between full power 9mm and your Federal loads isn't all that great, so practicing with normal full power ammo will be fine.

Edit to add, you are loading against a custom blended powder made just for Federal just for that load. You will likely end up beyond charted territory in the load books to match it. Some powders, like the ones I suggested, are pretty tolerant of that. Some powders will NOT tolerate it at all. Be careful and ask plenty of questions.

Edited May 14, 2006 by HSMITH

[RifleShooter]

For the Glock you are limited by the mag length and that limits powder selections drastically .Power Pistol is my best suggestion. It will get you there without any nasty surprises. SR-4756 is another that you can push pretty hard in 9mm.

DON'T try to push Universal Clays or Blue Dot, both hit a point and go really nasty without warning.

I would also suggest that you get some loading experience under your belt before swinging for the fence. The difference in recoil between full power 9mm and your Federal loads isn't all that great, so practicing with normal full power ammo will be fine.

Edit to add, you are loading against a custom blended powder made just for Federal just for that load. You will likely end up beyond charted territory in the load books to match it. Some powders, like the ones I suggested, are pretty tolerant of that. Some powders will NOT tolerate it at all. Be careful and ask plenty of questions.

Great! This is exactly the kind of info I was hoping to find. I'm not planning to start off too hot, that is just my goal. I'm happy to take my time reaching it, but I would rather start with a powder that will make it possible, rather than having to start over down the road.

Thanks! Anyone else care to chime in?

Arnie

[sargenv]

Are you sure about Blue Dot? I didn't think you could actually get enough Blue dot into most 9mm cases to make a difference being that this is magnum (ie very slow) pistol powder. Red dot or Green dot maybe since they are much faster powders and in the same class as Clays/Universal.

For higher velocity 9mm loads I'd stick to medium and slower rated powders that you could get enough into the case to make the velocity you want. Ball powders tend to be more energetic for that kind of thing and tend to be more compact for the case volume. HS6 should give you the kind of performance that you are looking for. Another powder that you might look into is Hodgdon Longshot. It is another very slow burning powder that gives higher velocities without having too much pressure. Hodgdon lists a starting load of 4.7 gr of Longshot for a velocity of 1022 fps and a chamber pressure of 28,100 PSI with a seating depth of 1.090" and a max load of 5.7 gr @ 1162 fps, OAL 1.090" and 33,400 PSI.

I got this data from www.hodgdon.com.

As always start low and work your way up looking for signs of pressure.

Vince

[HSMITH]

HS6 would probably do it too, but I don't have a lot of experience with it.

Blue Dot compresses well, you would be surprised how much will fit. It isn't all that slow burning, and provides pretty strong performance in 9mm.

Longshot is another that doesn't give a lot of warning. It is a lot more forgiving than Universal but not nearly as linear in pressure increases as Power Pistol. I've not taken Longshot to the fence in 9mm, but I have in 40 with a couple bullet weights and am basing my statements on that experience.

[RePete]

I use HS6, it has enough power to make minor with ease and when shooting. it's more of a push that a snap.

6.7gr with the 125gr bullet.

Bullseye, 231, et al are snappy, but they do work.

Good luck.

RePete.

[George]

I personally believe HS6 to be the best powder choice under a short loaded length "neener" at Major PF.

[RifleShooter]

A big THANK YOU to all who replied. At a gun show this past weekend, I found someone with HS-6, so I picked up a pound. (They did not have Power Pistol, which I was going to get as well for comparison.) I used the starting load data from my book(6.4gr, 125gr JHP) and loaded up 18 rounds. It only took about 3 hours to get everything adjusted and get them done. I took them to the range yesterday, and everything worked flawlessly! Since I don't have the chrono yet, I won't be changing anything, but I am very happy. These loads work just fine, and are at least as accurate as the factory stuff I have been shooting. I feel confident that I will be able to duplicate the Federal loads once I have the chrono.

My initial load:

125gr Zero JHP

6.4gr HS-6

Winchester brass

Federal 100 primer

OAL 1.100"

I'm really excited about this reloading stuff! Now I just need to fix the workbench that I have the press mounted on--it was not made very well, so it needs some reinforcement. Then I will be loading up a storm! Until the powder and primers run out...gotta get a larger quantity of both on order.

Thanks again!

Arnie

[Harmon]

run the overall lenght out to 1.125-1.150 for best results.

HS6 isnt a bad choice...though i have found that ramshot silhouette is cleaner..

[sargenv]

Blue Dot compresses well, you would be surprised how much will fit. It isn't all that slow burning, and provides pretty strong performance in 9mm.

Back 15 years or so when the formulation for Blue dot was a bit denser than now, I knew a a guy (still know him actually) that would long load 9mm with Sierra 115 JHC bullets and get a very full case of Blue Dot (something like 9.5-10 gr) and would shoot these out of a Sig 226. He was um, reprimanded on the slow fire range one time for shooting a tad too fast (slow fire) and the range officer on duty said something along the lines of (hey you with the 45, slow down!). All I can remember is that when that thing went off, all the brass on the bench would jump. I also recall that when we went down range, we saw bits of bullet jacket in the paper.. the bullets were coming apart.. I think at the time, the Geco cases had the most capacity and those are what he'd use for his very hot 9mm loads.

I still have some of that pre-fire/explosion Blue dot around, and I have some more modern stuff (alliant). It looks different and you have to reduce charge weight over the old Blue dot. Blue dot is my powder of choice for loading high velocity steel shotshells and 357 magnum jacketed loads. It was also the most impressive to people since it would flash more than about any other powder I've ever seen out of that 357.

Vince

[shooterbenedetto]

use VITAHVOURI all the way...if you love your gun, would you put 87 gas or racing fuel all the time....use vita vouri the cleanest powder in the world.

[revchuck]

Arnie - Just FYI, Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P runs ~1250 fps from my Beretta 92 Brigadier. The Hydra-Shok is probably in the same ball park. Standard velocity 124 grain 9x19 runs about 1050-1100 fps. My handloads run at standard velocities. There's not that much difference in recoil, and if you load a canister powder (that's what they call the stuff we handloaders can buy off the shelf) at +P velocities you'll end up with mega-muzzle flash. Self-defense ammo doesn't flash that much because its powder is specially blended not to.

The Zero 125 grain JHPs are the "gold standard" among 9mm bullets IMO. I load mine to 1.14" overall length.

[AustinMike]

use VITAHVOURI all the way...if you love your gun, would you put 87 gas or racing fuel all the time....use vita vouri the cleanest powder in the world.

Use what works well in your gun. I did a bunch of comparisons between VV and the less expensive powders for my .45 last year. I found the difference between VV310 and Clays to be virtually nill with my loads. Clays runs the gun fine and it's pretty clean, so why spend almost $8-10 more per pound? VV seemed to be slightly more consistent at the chrono, but not enough to make me want to change. I'm doing the same comparisons with my 9mm open gun now. HS-6 seems to work wonderfully right off the bat, but I'm chronoing against some VV and other powders this weekend to see if the grass is greener with anything else. It will take a big perceptible improvement in dot/gun movement to make me want to spend more on powder.

I LOVE my bike, but it stills drinks 87 octane and it seems happy with that!

[LPatterson]

One of our local M shooters was talking about his loads of VV & Montana Gold's for matchs but when I caught him at practice it was Clays & plated bullets. I love my gun enough to have had it rebuilt twice but the gas around here is 85.5 octane for a dime more I can get 87, is it really going to give that much better mileage.

[oz1]

I've been shooting casting and reloading for 34 years.

What I have always found, If you get a lymann manual, for each bullet weight and type, for every caliber, they list a factory duplication load and the potentially most accurate load. This information has saved me untold hours of trial and error. 90% of the time great loads too. Good Luck This reply is for rifle shooter sorry

Edited August 26, 2006 by oz1

[mrapathy2000]

VihtaVouri makes some pretty nice powder and it has very little if any flash and plenty of speed. very easy to measure. single base. drawback is the price.

I love N340 but N330,N350 and 3N37 do similar things with differences in charge weight.

Unique can be good but its dirty. some people have problems with how it meters. it meters about the same as powerpistol for me though get occasional light charge it fills the case up good.

never pushed longshot in 40sw never saw the need with data availible.

9mm on the other hand I am pushing longshot over Hodgdon data which is lousy. short and light loads. longshot is not as nice as powerpistol in 9mm specially with heavier bullets.

powerpistol can have a blinding flash though sometimes it has none.

[RifleShooter]

Thanks to everyone for the input. I started out trying to duplicate my Federal 124gr Hydra-Shok loads, which average 1222fps in my Glock 19. My results thus far:

Using HS6:

6.4gr - 1121fps

6.6gr - 1144fps

6.8gr - 1194fps

Using Power Pistol:

6.2gr - 1159fps

6.4gr - 1179fps

6.6gr - ???? (chrono errors)

I noticed especially on the larger loads of Power Pistol that I got a tremendous muzzle blast, which I did not notice with any of the loads using HS6. Also, Power Pistol gives more muzzle flip, and torques the gun to the left, which again I did not notice using HS6. Power Pistol definitely has the power to reach the necessary velocity, but I don't like it. I believe the chrono errors were caused by the increased muzzle blast. Using HS6, I am right on the brink of duplicating the Federal loads, and I don't notice a significant difference in feel between my HS6 loads and the Federal. For that matter, the higher powered loads with HS6 and the 125gr Zero JHPs feel very much like the Winchester 115gr FMJ of the famous Winchester white box.

At this point I don't see a reason to use anything but HS6. I have not noticed it being any dirtier than anything else I have put through the gun, and it gives me the velocity I want, and is plenty accurate. Now I just need a huge keg of it, and I'll be set for a while.

Thanks again!

Arnie

[BlackSabbath]

I posted this in the Beginner/Gun and Reloading Questions forum, and then I saw this one. Since the folks that are most likely to have good answers are not beginners, I thought I would post it here as well.

I have been a shooter for 20 years, but I am just getting into reloading. I have a Glock 19 which is my carry gun. In the gun I carry Federal Premium +P+ 124gr Hydra-Shok JHP ammo. I would like to match the performance of this ammo as closely as possible.

I have ordered Zero 125gr JHP bullets, I have lots of Winchester brass, and I will be using Federal primers. My question is what kind of powder to use. My chrono is on order, but is not here yet, so I don't have good stats on the Federal ammo yet.

With this information, can someone suggest a good starting powder? I can look up all sorts of loading data, but that is part of the problem. There is so much data that I am getting confused. At some point I will probably try making some softer shooting practice ammo, but for now my goal is to duplicate the performance of my carry ammo. I promise to start low and work my way up. I will not be loading anything until I get the chrono, since I have no other way to test anything.

Is that enough data to get some starting points? Thanks in advance!

Arnie

Winchester Super Field (WSF).

With that bullet I'd go 4.8 to 5.0 grains. Use factory specs on oal and crimp. That load puts you in the 132 to 137 pf range. I swithced over to 147 and running 4.0 grains gives me 137 pf.

Hope this helps.

[revchuck]

Arnie - If you're happy with the powder, a good place to order an 8 lb. keg is http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/. Great prices and service!