Looking

[38supPat]

I need a new stock for my Winchester M-14, M1-A stocks should fit no prob right?...Does Springfield still sell a line of stocks. I know they used to, but surfing their site I don't see any listed.

Pat

[David Benzick]

Check out <www.jouster.com>. There are always guys selling stocks for M1As.

Check out http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/  He genarally has a good selection of walnut and synthetic stocks.

Good luck.

(Edited by David Benzick at 3:56 pm on Feb. 7, 2002)

[Jake Di Vita]

Out at the range this morning I was attempting to shoot some 6 shot groups at about 25 yards. I shot 60 rounds in 10 strings, every single time I was all over the A zone with the occasional C. After a while of that, I moved up close to 7 yards and shot another 6 shot group. This time I practically put all the shots in the same hole, easily a 1 inch group. So I sat down for like 5 minutes (in my car because it was about 10 degrees out:)) pondering what the difference was between shooting a group at 7 yards and a group at 25. Eventually I had the realization that there was absolutely no difference. I had been trained to think that shooting a 25 yard target was harder than a 7 yard target simply because of the distance. All of the fundamentals are the same at any distance. After I pushed this mental block out of my head, I got back up went out to 25 yards and shot about a 2 inch group. I need some feedback, am I on the right track?

Jake

[jhgtyre]

I have been watching my daughter shoot high power rifle matches and I have noticed that she had the same issues that you had.  Her coach pointed out the same philosophy that you discovered to her and her scores did improve.  

There is one important difference though;  distance amplifies mistakes.  If you have any flaws in your form distance will magnify that flaw and the further the distance the more obvious the flaws will be.

-jhgtyre

[benos]

I'd say two-inch groups at 25 yds means you're on the right track.

The "observable movement factor" makes it more difficult to shoot to (within) your (holding) ability at longer distances. If you think about it, no matter what distance you're shooting at, your "hold" should be the same. At the exact instant the bullet leaves the barrel, a given misalignment (in degrees, for example) off center will produce a shot proportionally off center at any given distance. There's really no magic involved. (Leaving aside the gun's tendency to lose accuracy with distance, which "shouldn't" be that big of a deal with a pistol at reasonable distances.) So we beat the problem introduced by "the perceived hold increasing with distance" by ignoring it - and proceeding in a straightforward manner to release the shot WITHOUT DISTURBING OUR ESTABLISHED HOLD. (This is the "frozen in aiming" thing I discussed in Matt Burkett's video interview.)

Unconsciously, slowfire, we shoot at an exact spot on any given target. This becomes a problem with target distance. So when a target is at 25 yds, the observable movement tends to panic us, because we directly see we have no hope of hitting our (unconsciously incorrect) goal, thereby freezing positive action.

The solution is to:

a) Establish and then forget your grip and position.

Establish your (current ability to) "hold."

c) Imagine that your target is the size of your hold. (An area, not a spot.)

d) Now ignoring your hold, consciously direct 90% of your attention to - Release the shot without disturbing your hold. (Leaving the other 10% of your attention to look at the sights to call the shot.) Now at step "d" you won't mess around with it - you will just pull it through.

be

[PaulW]

Awesome post Brian.

When I was first starting to shoot i had a terrible time with accuracy and flinching.  I would dry fire for hours and never see the sights move, but during live fire I was terrible. (may have been blinking also).  Well after hours and hours of practice I learned part of my problem was when I went to the range I would load 15-18 rds of ammo into a mage and start blasting away.  I would get fatigued and noticed that after about 10 shots is when my groups would start to diminish.  I started loading no more than 5 rounds and started to see improvement right away.  At one point I would only load a single round and would tell myslef to make it count and not waste it.  Big help.

[Jake Di Vita]

Thanks guys, especially Brian. Y'know, 6 months ago, if I had read that post from Brian, I wouldn't have even had a clue. This site helps you improve in many more ways than one.

[Flexmoney]

Jake,

I think you experienced a great break-thru.  You were open enough to realize that you had imposed a limitation upon yourself.  Then you even went the next step...you over-came that limitation.

cool.

[Ron Ankeny]

I used worry about the observable movement factor that Brian talks about back when I shot a lot of PPC. I just hated seeing my front sight wander all over the place at 50 yards. It was driving me nuts.

My shooting buddy was about ready to kick my butt into Never Never Land for spending every waking hour stressing over the 50 yard line, but instead he took me aside and explained my hold to me in mathematical terms. He just happens to have more degrees in math than a thermometer.

I don't remember exactly how he explained it, but it was something like this. If you can hold the nine ring, then any given string of fire would at it's worst result in a random distribution of shots across the X, 10, and 9 rings. Of course, that distribution results in a High Master score. If you hold the 9 ring with occasional wobbles into the 8 ring, a random distribution of shots will result in at least Master class score. From then on, I stopped thinking about the movement at all and just concentrated on breaking and calling the shot. The improvement was rather significant and almost immediate.

(Edited by Ron Ankeny at 5:09 pm on Dec. 5, 2002)

[THS]

Great thread.

In my experience with bullseye shooters we see this a LOT.  We take a new shooter, and try to explain that they shouuld strive to use correct trigger controll, while their sights are in their aiming area.  Most seem to grasp this, or so they say, when using iron sights.

Then we give they a red dot sighted wadcutter gun or .22 Hammerli, and things go to hell FAST.  Why?  People now SEE the red dot bouncing all over the place and FREAK OUT.  They suddenly try to shoot the shot EXACTLY when the dot is centered.  At 50 yards, one hand classical bullseye style, this trigger controll lapse id disastrous.  All because they see more movement than before.  There isn't any more movement, but with the target and sight(s) in the same focal plane, we can see it.

We'll sometimes swap an iron sight gun into their hands for the very next string, and see a several point increase.  

At that point we try to stop and explain the concept of aiming area again, as well as Ron's example of score probability with a given aiming area, and go back to the dot guns.  Those that can relax, see what is going on, and trust in their ability to break good shots somewhere in their aiming area look like they've had an out-of-body experience!  The light has come on, and they'll only get better.  Those that cant relax and accept the movements will never get to the real top levels, in my experience.

Knowing when to get to that level of focus is they key in our game, cause I don't need that at 5 yards, but back it up to 50 and watch what happens to most.

I heard a great quote from a 4 time national bullseye champion a year or so ago that said words to the effect of "It is too late to try to make your hold smaller in the match, that is what you do in dry fiTomre, holding exercises, and the gym.  A match is the time to break shots while the sights are within your aiming area.  Do that, and you'll get the results you've earned."

Made sense to me.

[bountyhunter]

So true about "trigger rush" in response to sight movement.

Another point not mentioned:  if you shoot at a bullseye (black dot) and are focused on the front sight, the dot has a "blur fringe", ie it's not in focus.  At 15 yards, that dot is a lot easier to see accurately than 25, in effect the "blur area" at 25 will occupy a lot larger percentage of the visualized target dot.  IMO, that also contributes to group size "flaring" as the range moves out in distance.