Ron Ankeny Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) There has been quite the conversation going on in the classifiers forum about high hit factors that seem unreasonable. One of the classifiers in question is Bang and Clang. I set that classifier up and shot through it a few times in an attempt to get a 100% run on video. No such luck, the hit factor is...well...just nutzoid. I shot a couple of warm up drills in warp drive, then settled down and shot these two back to back. I am only posting them because I was amazed at the consistency. Check these out and see if you can find the difference in time. Bang and Clang Another One Pretty cool? Also, feel free to offer a critique of the various elements. Especially the transition from paper to steel. Edited April 10, 2006 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 First video: Draw 1.17, .23, .32-.17 split, .44, .29 for a total of 2.61 seconds. Second Video: Draw 1.15, .24, .31-.17 split, .43, .31 for a total of 2.61 seconds. My transition from the paper to the poppers on the right side is about .10 slower than I would like. I am not calling the shot and snapping my eyes for some reason. I just thought the similarities were striking. Both runs would be 94% and change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 NICE !!!!! So has anyone done the math???? What will it take to do 100% with a limited gun? Open???(afraid to ask that one) Production will take a 2.40 down 1 or a 2.50 clean Revolver will take a 2.60 down 1 or a 2.70 clean I guess single stack is based on Limited too????? Good shooting Ron! Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 So has anyone done the math????What will it take to do 100% with a limited gun? Open???(afraid to ask that one) Production will take a 2.40 down 1 or a 2.50 clean Revolver will take a 2.60 down 1 or a 2.70 clean I guess single stack is based on Limited too????? B&C Classifier thread wherein Flex does the math and Jake checks it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 When is some one going to offer a critique? This is the video training forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 The thing that jumps out at me is the same thing you mention - picking up that 3rd popper after the paper target (and transitions, in general). Have you seen Scott's (Loves2Shoot) vid of this stage?? Like Jake says in the other thread, this course is all about indexes/transitions from target to target. If you have the gear, you could theoreticall set this up with steel challenge plates - just use 5 12" plates, or something. Set four low in the area of the popper circles, and one higher to represent the target. That way you don't have to constantly reset poppers. Start pushing those indexes - snap your eyes to that popper and drive the gun there. For practice purposes, pick a cadence (say, .25 splits, for instance) and shoot it, and force yourself to drive the gun onto the next target before the shot breaks. You'll be surprised what you can pull off doing that sort of pushing. Then shoot it straight up. Just a couple of ideas on the practice side of it, anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) If I were forced to be critical I'd say it sounds like four individual popper engagements and a double tap. The good runs I've heard sound like a smooth bill drill in around 2.4. My draw from surrender is pretty weak, but when I shoot it, that's what I visualize, a smooth 2.2-2.4 bill drill calling every shot. Speed up transitions, slow down splits. 2.46 clean should 100% in Limited. Edited April 10, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) Good advice. Low 2's out of a production rig isn't superhuman. I think you could break 2 seconds with an open gun (I've been working on my surrender draw, so I'll let you know in a couple months ) This one is all about keeping the gun moving and making your trigger finger keep up with it, and we know you can pull the trigger fast enough, Edited April 10, 2006 by Loves2Shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Sub 2 is definetely not superhuman. That being said though in a match I would probably never shoot it under 2.4ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 That being said though in a match I would probably never shoot it under 2.4ish. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Because it is a 30 point stage and there is no reason to push for a sub-2. Gotta figure each make up shot will cost you .2 to .3. Really nothing to gain on this stage. I'd rather just shoot this one in total control. If I lose 5 points to someone on this stage, I'll gain it back on another. No reason to push and turn this into a 2.7 or higher run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 FWIW, I am shooting the drill with one eye and the lens is set to the front sight. I would like to use that for an excuse, but according to my training logs I have been a lot slower on transitions from near to far than the other way around since day one. It frustrates me not knowing if the problem is vision, technique, or between the ears. Maybe all of the above. FWIW, I seem to be dipping my head when I go from the high target to the low target. I never noticed that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 When is some one going to offer a critique? This is the video training forum. Shoot faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) Because it is a 30 point stage and there is no reason to push for a sub-2. Gotta figure each make up shot will cost you .2 to .3. Really nothing to gain on this stage.I'd rather just shoot this one in total control. If I lose 5 points to someone on this stage, I'll gain it back on another. No reason to push and turn this into a 2.7 or higher run. Sorry Jake, I just had to hear you say that especially since you've pushed me to try make .75 reloads the norm instead of the exception. I'm trying to get away from the notion of speed entirely. Just pushing my vision, preping the trigger on every shot, and calling every shot. Edited April 10, 2006 by Loves2Shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Shoot faster... Actually, I have shot this classifier faster, one at 98% and one well over 100%. Speed isn't the issue. The issue is consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 When is some one going to offer a critique? This is the video training forum. Here is one...the back of your shirt looks nice. (hard to see a lot of hand work at that angle). On your feet...it sure looks like your are overly setup to favor the right side of the array. For the left targets, that puts you out over the top of your left foot. I'll probably set this one up for the Steel Challenge match this Saturday (minus the split on the center target). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 On your feet...it sure looks like your are overly setup to favor the right side of the array. I set my NPA on the first popper of the pair on the right because that's the culprit that gives me gas. As for the angle, it sucks. Are you going to shoot the drill on static steel or on reactive steel for your steel match? I would be interested in hearing how the crew likes the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) I would say a 1 sec draw or faster would be very doable. Once your hand is on the gun... it seems to come up kind of slow (relatively speaking ) have you tried snapping it up faster ... my draw really speeds up when I treat ever draw the same and just take a little more time to sight the gun the farther away I am. watching your videos your draw just doesn't seem to flow with the rest of your shooting. still a smoking run ! and looks great ! C-38 Edited April 10, 2006 by caspian38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Since you are doing it faster than I can...critique is not forthcoming.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 watching your videos your draw just doesn't seem to flow with the rest of your shooting. I know. I have training logs going back six years and they don't paint a pretty picture as far as the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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