dajarrel Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Most everyone has heard that you can drop a frog in boiling water and he will jump out but if you put him normal temperature water and heat it up he will sit right there until he cooks. I think the oil companies are doing the same thing to the American public. During hurricanes Katrina and Rita last year when the refineries and pipelines were damaged, we raised cain about the gas prices jumping from $2.25 or so up to $2.40 and $2.50. The price eventually went back to the $2.20 range. But for the last six or seven months, we have been like the frog. Gas prices have slowly worked back up to the point where I noticed gas at $2.69/gal for regular unleaded this morning and we are still sitting quietly in the pan. And nobody is B$tching. The gubment isn't saying anything, I don't recall hearing any public interest groups fussing. We are all being nice and submissive in this abuse. What can we do about it? Probably not much. I'll continue to buy it because I have to get to work, but you can be assured I'll try to cut back in my usage. Just thought I'd open this can of worms. dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 AGREED...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougBarnes101 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 OK It's good to see that I am a frog because I thought there had been another hurricane that I didn't know about. No really here in Indy the price will jump 25-30 cents and then fall back about 20-25 cents and it has been going on like this for weeks. When it jumped this week unleaded regular was up to $2.79 a gallon and now it is back to $2.55 to $2.59 a gallon. Won't be long until we are back up over $3.00 per gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Spring Break drive time. Supply and demand. Greed Works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I think the oil companies are doing the same thing to the American public...Gas prices have slowly worked back up to the point where I noticed gas at $2.69/gal for regular unleaded this morning...What can we do about it? Probably not much... You can send your thank-you notes to your congresscritters, who created perfect conditions for this mess last summer with the latest energy bill, which contained a huge sop to Midwest corn farmers in the form of a huge new ethanol mandate that began this year and requires drivers to consume 7.5 billion gallons a year by 2012. At the same time, Congress refused to include liability protection for producers of MTBE, a mandated oxygen fuel-additive that has become a juicy tort lawyer target (think "asbestos"). So MTBE makers are pulling out, ethanol makers can't make up the difference quickly enough, and gas supplies are getting squeezed. The abrupt cut-off of a product that makes up a material volume percentage of the nation's fuel supply is inevitably going to wreak price havoc. Ethanol production is already running near its capacity of 283,000 barrels a day. Yet nearly this many barrels per day of additional ethanol will be needed to replace the MTBE currently used in gas. Imports could help, though the domestic ethanol industry has made sure those also come at a dear price - imports are subject to a 2.5% tariff and a second duty of 54 cents a gallon. Couple this with the political uncertainty in major producing nations like Venezuela and Iran, which have conspired to drive crude prices to record levels, the usual and expected step-change in demand for the spring and summer driving seasons, and exploding demand in devloping nations such as China and India, and, well, it doesn't take an economics degree to see this coming. (An ultra-low sulfur diesel program begins June 1, another gift horse from Congress...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Who would cook Frogs Whole? Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) Fortune 500 2006 Our annual ranking of America's largest corporations Exxon Mobil Rank: 1 I still don't understand... gas station buys a certain amount of gas from a company for a certain price... company delivers gas... gas station adjusts cost to consumers per changes in the market... ??? I dont' get it. Capitalism or Price Gouging... I'm also sick of listening to the latest, greatest "explanations" for increased cost of fuel/energy. They are so full of shjt. If Iraq has such an effect on our gas prices, let's just take over the damn crap-hole already. Will the third time be the charm? Also, don't oil refineries have disaster insurance? Maybe they're covered for Hurricane damage but they didn't buy the Flood policies... What's tomorrows excuse? Forget the friggin' Lottery... I'm gonna open a gas station and sell gas for $0.05 over cost per gallon. Thanks. I feel a little better now. edited to add: Is the frog and/or water heated on an electric element, conventional gas burner or a duel-fuel unit? Edited April 8, 2006 by Sharyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 edited to add: Is the frog and/or water heated on an electric element, conventional gas burner or a duel-fuel unit? I don't have a clue but most really good cooks say gas is the best dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Nope, Just the legs! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 No matter how you cook it... it still tastes like chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Chicken? Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brit. Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 UK fuel prices. The petrol station close to me has just put the price of a litre of diesel fuel up to 98.9p. Approx 4.5 litres to the UK gallon = £4.45. ($7.47) Our wonderful government place a 'fuel duty' onto the cost THEN add VAT (sales tax) to it. Where else in the world do you pay tax on tax? If anyone is thinking of coming here, can I respectfully sugest you don't, you won't like it! Everything is expensive, the weather is awful and you can't own your own pistols!! Ok, I feel better now, rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 You mean we're not the only ones who are frustrated with our Gubment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Every day that gas sits over $1.60/gal another ethanol plant gets built. They're big and they take time, but there's gonna be a gazillion of them. My buddy is in a business that supplies major component for ethanol plants...among other things. The projects he has been working on were financed based on an unsubsidized pump price of $1.60 / gallon. His company is doing a ton of them, and they're a minor player in the industry. Biodiesel will come on strong as well. Right now they can only mix 80% diesel to 20% bio, but the financial incentive for 100% is so strong that *somebody* will solve the lubrication issue (pure biodiesel provides poor lubrication) so that pure bio-d won't wreck diesel fuel injection systems. If the oil companies aren't nervous, they should be. They're pricing themselves into a market where the alternatives are cost-competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Every day that gas sits over $1.60/gal another ethanol plant gets built. They're big and they take time, but there's gonna be a gazillion of them. My buddy is in a business that supplies major component for ethanol plants...among other things. The projects he has been working on were financed based on an unsubsidized pump price of $1.60 / gallon. His company is doing a ton of them, and they're a minor player in the industry. Biodiesel will come on strong as well. Right now they can only mix 80% diesel to 20% bio, but the financial incentive for 100% is so strong that *somebody* will solve the lubrication issue (pure biodiesel provides poor lubrication) so that pure bio-d won't wreck diesel fuel injection systems. If the oil companies aren't nervous, they should be. They're pricing themselves into a market where the alternatives are cost-competitive. The bigger question is whether all this newly mandated ethanol will even make it to its destinations. Unlike MTBE, ethanol can't be shipped blended through pipelines. It must instead be trucked or railed from the Midwest to terminals near its ultimate selling point, where it's then blended with special unfinished fuel blends that are shipped separately through pipelines. This is creating a logistical nightmare, forcing refiners to add blending facilities at their terminals, convert tanks to hold ethanol, and switch over retail outlets. The mandate thus won't reduce gas prices but WILL underwrite a politically powerful ethanol industry that can't survive without government handouts, protectionism and the brute force of mandates. Increasing ethanol use much beyond the 2012 mandate is going to require that entire states be planted with corn and sugar, or that there be some step-out breakthrough involving biomass and grass. Meantime, prepare to pay more for gasoline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Does it still require more than a gallon of diesel to grow/make a gallon of ethanol? That used to be the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 n2, I don't agree with the government mandates. The fact is, that these plants were being built prior to the latest regulations and that the product does not need to be subsidized for it to be successful. The financial analysis was based on an unsubsidized payoff. Gas prices are what they are because of rampant emotionalism on all sides of the issue. Some areas of the country (like here ) are better suited to producing biodiesel. Some are better suited to ethanol. If the market was allowed to run it's course, all this would get sorted out automatically. People could make it themselves if distillation were not a federal crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Does it still require more than a gallon of diesel to grow/make a gallon of ethanol? That used to be the case... Yes, but what's going on is that they are using the combustion of free waste products to obtain that energy. So yes, it takes more energy, but it's not like you're paying for all of it. My friend's company builds a specialized type of incinerator that is used to provide the heat to distill the ethanol. Technically, according to thermodynamics, EVERY energy source we use took more energy to create it than we obtain. It's the law. The question is, are we *paying* for that energy? Ethanol was used as a petroleum fuel substitute during WWII. We wouldn't have done that if it was a net gasoline loss. I find all the ethanol bashing really odd - considering we've done it before and it's worked before. People really need to redirect their efforts toward Hydrogen. Hydrogen cars are the biggest scientific lie of this and the last millenium. Yeah, there's a car that runs on hydrogen, but it goes a hell of a lot less distance that if you simply took the same energy that it took to make the hydrogen and charged a battery with it. So, let's pump a few more billion into trying to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Maybe we'll get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 ...People could make it themselves if distillation were not a federal crime... Need some relatives in the woods!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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