Sps Mags .40 Cal 140mm - Thread Split

[dirtypool40]

Ok, let's talk only about SPS mags in .40 cal. 140mm length and 120mm / "Standard" mags. We don't care about 170 mm .40 cal mags.Please keep this about .40 cal, and SPS tubes.

Who has had the 140's up against the USPSA mag gauge and do they fit?

What did they hold?

If not what did you have to do to get them to fit?

Who has has the SPS "Standard" mags in the gun and in the box? How many do they hold and are they "reloadable"?

Edited March 8, 2006 by dirtypool40

[Skywalker]

DP,

I already posted it here somewhere.

I have built a reloadable 19-rounder with the following components:

- SPS 120(126?)mm tube.

- SVI red competition follower (homemade trimmed).

- Wolff 10 coils spring (homemade cut and shaped).

- Local aluminum basepad.

So far it has worked 100% reliable.

I just replaced the spring at the beginning of this year, and it took a few days (maybe a couple of weeks) for it to get a set and still allow the mag to be a reloadable 19-rounder.

Until then, it still was 19 rounds, but not a reloadable one.

[BamBam]

I bought some 140mm SPS mags and they do not even come close to fitting in the USPSA gauge with the SPS basepad!!

With a dawson base pad, or any other design they STILL do not fit in the gauge.

With some lip bending and judicious filing, it may fit one day... but I am not there yet.

[dirtypool40]

Thanks, this is what I had heard. Poor / misleading marketing by SPS to be sure.

Do the "Standard" mags fit in the box?

Edited March 8, 2006 by dirtypool40

[vikings501]

I have 3 sps mags, on one I lowered the feed lips and used a dawson +1 base pad, it will hold 21 rounds. on the other 2, I altered some base pads and removed the internal lock and they both hold 21. all of them are stacked almost solid, but they all 3 work in my gun. others with the same set up have had problems. they all 3 fit the egw gauge, and I had them checked at chrono at last years nationals. they fit that gauge also.

[dirtypool40]

I have 3 sps mags, on one I lowered the feed lips and used a dawson +1 base pad, it will hold 21 rounds. on the other 2, I altered some base pads and removed the internal lock and they both hold 21. all of them are stacked almost solid, but they all 3 work in my gun. others with the same set up have had problems. they all 3 fit the egw gauge, and I had them checked at chrono at last years nationals. they fit that gauge also.

Intersting. Pics of "lowered" feed lips?

[vikings501]

sorry, don't have any pics. just took a dremel with a hard rubber wheel and polished them down until it fit the gauge. maybe I can take a few pics and try to post them later.

[vikings501]

Here is my first attempt at posting pics, also let me say up front, I am no photographer. The mag with the dawson is the one with the lower feed lips. it also has a Gramms spring and follower. the last pic is one of the sps mags, back to back with an STI/Dawson mag. all of these mags fit the EGW gauge, and both sps mags hold 21 plus 1 rounds.

sps1

sps2

sps3

sps4

Edited March 8, 2006 by vikings501

[ima45dv8]

I have 3 sps mags, on one I lowered the feed lips and used a dawson +1 base pad, it will hold 21 rounds. on the other 2, I altered some base pads and removed the internal lock and they both hold 21. all of them are stacked almost solid, but they all 3 work in my gun. others with the same set up have had problems. they all 3 fit the egw gauge, and I had them checked at chrono at last years nationals. they fit that gauge also.

Good pics.

You said they were almost solid but worked in your gun. Does that mean you could reload to them?

[vikings501]

I wouldn't want to reload to them unless I had a few steps to do it in. definately wouldn't want to do a standing reload. if you download them by one, they are pretty easy to reload to 20 rounds when needed.

[Skywalker]

Do the "Standard" mags fit in the box?

Sorry DP,

forgot to mention it: checked at least 10 times in most Lev. II & III matches all over Europe, and I even loaned it to a teammate of mine for WS XIV.

It ALWAYS proved to be legal.

[chuckbradley]

I got one same time as Viking. I didnt want to go to all the trouble he did to make them work. I sold mine. The mag tube itself is 140mm. No room for a pad. Viking had to take an aluminum pad and cut it down to only 1mm thing to get it to go in the gauge. I didnt realize he cut the lips down on anohter to get it to work with a dawson plus 1 pad.

Yes they have used deceptive advertising to sell them here in the US. I feel for those that have bought them thinking they were legal and when they go to a match that measures then they will be put into open class.

My current mags hols 20+1 and I also have a special mag Bevin tuned for me that holds 21. So I didnt need to pursue it. I only use that 21+1 mag when I need it and to behonest over the past 3 years I have only needed it twice. It has to be a mostly paper 19-21 round stage with one steel at most that I will use it on. Otherwise I use the 20+1 and plan a reload. I am a conservative shooter.

The mag from bevin was one of the original 40 cal mags made by STI. The neck is thicker and allows one more round. They are short, like 129mm but Bevin makes a special pad for them. There are no more available for sale unless you get lucky and find them used. STI found a whole box of them towards the end the high cap ban and I bouht them all and sold them. Most of them not knowing what I had.

[dirtypool40]

Thanks Chuck, good stuff. I had one of those 131 or whatever mags when I first got in, and could load 20 and aaaallllmost 21. If I'd known then.....

Anyway, maybe the width in the neck is where the Brazilian guy gets the extra one. I have two of those 19 rounders you can load as easy as a normal "Standard" mag holding 17 rounds. they load as easy as my 140 mm USPSA mags with 19 in them, and from habit I am faster with them than the longer mag.

They also make a 21 rounder you can load to. I am trying to get my hands on one.

So are the SPS tubes thicker in the neck? If so it might be worth playing around with a "cut and paste" if I'll end up with a 21 rounder I can load to. I agree it don't happen often, but when those friggin' 22 or 23 round Para guys get to go "loadless" once in a while, it chaps my ass .

The Braz 21 rounders are about $200 per. If I could do the SPS project for around $100 I'd risk it.

[chuckbradley]

Here goes the story on the give & take. When you try to achieve more of something in this sport you generally give something else up. Thats the way the game is played also. We need to find the right balance. Yes the thicker necks give us more capacity but they also give problems with sticking. Thats why i only use it if I know I wont have to reload from it. I believe this is why STi changed the initial design. They would stick.

The Sps mag holds more because it is longer. I suspect that if you took a dawson plus base pad and made it longer to fill the extra gap given us by USPSA, like the grams 4mm pad does. and we make the bottom thickness at 1mm as they are doing with the SPS we could get 21 in an STI mag I havent tried it. Guess to test it we could take a grams 4mm pad and cut it out more and see what it does. I dont know if the Delron material grams uses will hold up that thin, he could answer that and may have already by not making them that thin.

The SPS mag may have a wider dimension from side to side but I think STI and SV have maximized that dimemsion to what works best. Any wider and they go side by side and dont feed properly. I tried to get both companies to make me a 45 mag with 40 cal lips on it so I could play with it, they both told me it wouldnt work. In fact i think brian may have tried it before I had the idea.

Bottom line. Take the 19-20 +1 and play your game with what you know works. In the long run consistency wins matches.

[BamBam]

I fiddled a little more in the basement, and got my SPS 140mm to fit into the gauge. Had to lightly file some off the top lips, and belt sand the +0 plastic mag plate to a thinner dimension. The basepad is the kind where you have a flat piece of plastic under the spring, and it locks the basepad in place with a star shaped button. The magazine will hold 20, and is reloadable.

Having a plastic basepad this thin gives me the heebie-jeebies. I have a +0 metal basepad of the same design that I will grind down to replace the plastic. Just takes a lot longer to grind metal.

[bulm540]

I am glad I did not buy the SPS mags.

[infinity]

I tried to get both companies to make me a 45 mag with 40 cal lips on it so I could play with it, they both told me it wouldnt work. In fact i think brian may have tried it before I had the idea.

I'm using 1 45 mag tube (126mm, STD DIV IPSC) for my 40 and with the SV trimmed follower and wolff springs i get reloadable 18rds. my 40 mag tubes are harder to reload on with 18rds.

[a-44978]

I bought one of those "140mm "What the f@#$ kind a measuring stick did they use?

The common concencus i get from M and up is don't sweat it ,plan a mag change.These guys also make holes in the A zone before the mag hits the ground and somtimes moving!

DAMNIT SOMEDAY I WANNA DO THAT TOO !

Till then I'm a struggling B and hate the equipment race.

Make Limited hold 20or 21 max and open hold 30or 50 or whatever those people typically hold and workin stiffs like me can spend the mag spring tune up money on reloading supplies or even gas to get to the match or etc.....................

VENT OVER

I religated my SPS mag to steel matches,guess i'll get out the dremmel and change that.

[dirtypool40]

Great post, had me rocking and laughing my azzz off.

I have another thread about the SPS mags somewhere. Despite the best advice of my friends on here, I went ahead and tried them.

So far my experience with them has been pretty positive.

They are business like and deliver goods a whole lot quicker than some stateside providers.

The mags seem well made, maybe between high end SV and more available STI, but nice all the same. Way better than factory Paras.

They have functioned flawlessly in my guns with no tuning.

They do not lock the slide back.

They do not, alas, hold 21 as the come from the factory. 18 rounds standard mags hold 18 as advertized, but are too wide to lock in the gun with some magwells.

So, like Chuck and others have said, it's a trade off.

[infinity]

18 rounds standard mags hold 18 as advertized, but are too wide to lock in the gun with some magwells.

DP,

where u able to cure the problem with the standard mag? i bought one of the SPS mags and when the magwell is removed the mag will insert and fall off easily but when the magwell is back it sticks halfway....any progress on this? btw, my guns is an STI with STI magwell...thanks

Edited July 11, 2006 by infinity

[dirtypool40]

no cure with standard for me, they are a little shorter so you go to the Dawson pad and you've lost the length, and the mag becomes hard to lock in w/18. The SV pad may work but I have gone another route.....

PM Me for details...

RE: SPS MAGS and dealing with them through the website:

BUYER BEWARE. You will "have trouble" getting what is advertised, and there is NO CUSTOMER SERVICE DEALING OVERSEAS.

Guys I really appreciate your patience.

Right now things are at a standstill.

SPS is still selling misleading products on the internet to US customers when I am supposed to be their "exclusive US distributor" , and making people mad because the stuff they are selling DOES NOT do what it is advertised to.

They never seemed to have enough to sell me any for inventory. Then they came to the FL Open with NO TUBES and didn't even show up for Sunday. I don't know what's going on, but it is the most "interesting" business management and ethics model I've ever seen. They'd rather make a quick $1 selling around me and making people mad, than making $1,000 working with me and being sure folks are happy.

Everyone who has tried to work with them in the past, tried to warn me.

I’ve spent the better part of a year trying to help them understand our rules and market and let's just say “I was not rewarded for my efforts”. I haven't sold any mags or tubes and I'm about at the end of MY patience. When you are ready to write a check for 5 or $10k and they can't seem to deliver, things are unquestionably fishy.

Anyone interested in making them work and getting a 21 rounder feel free to PM me. I'll be happy to help you where I can, for free, but I will probably not have mags to sell.

Sorry. I tried.

[blue edge]

sorry it did not work out dp

[Shawn Knight]

Hmmm.... I see once again I should have done more searching. I have 3 SPS mags for Para, and I have swapped out all the internals and pads for Grams. I do not have a mag gauge yet but I just ordered one. I have measured using a ruler and they measure out to 140mm. They they are at present 19 reloadable 20 with lots of effort. I had ordered from the website way before I found any of this info. One of my mags was most definitely ans S_I mag as the mag catch hole was cut wrong for a Para(holds the mag too low). It also did not say MG para on it. The other 2 mags I got as tubes and they hold the mag in the gun correctly. All three work very well as magazines however one will not drop free. I load them with 19 and have not had a major malfunction yet. I will have to see how they work with the mag gauge.

Edited March 1, 2007 by theknightoflight

[scirocco38s]

DP, I ordered 4 of the new 40/140 mags in dec06 and they arrived 15days later. They had the plastic flat base pad on them and they fit the guage with no problem. They have the new copy of the grams follower and spring and hold 19 reloadable, with a dawson pad the held 20 reloadable and still fit the guage easily. I had some of the early ones that everyone talks about, but they were brought in the country 3 or 4 years ago. Those tubes were 140 without a pad. The new mages I find to be acceptable and reliable, the price is good but they evidently will sell to me at the same price as a distributor. I have a buddy in europe that stated everyone who was dealing with sps as a dealer or distributor is dropping them for the reasons you are making,they are so money hungry that they will not protect the people that were sellomg the product for them. Its very sad as they had some good ideas and competition makes everyone produce a better product to try and keep market share.

[Shawn Knight]

I guess some people just don't want the sport to be affordable.