Urbanti Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Hi - complete 625 newbie with brand new 625 (with frame mounted firing pin). bent/broke the stock half moon clips in first ten minutes of ownership was told the gun should run just fine with rounds placed in cylinder with no clips without clips, am getting light primer strikes once every 6-10 rounds same experience with handloads and win wb 45 acp ammo question: should the gun run just fine without clips, or are the clips essential to getting the primer close enough to the firing pin? thanks in advance for any advice/experience, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Tim, You must use the full or half moon clips. Your rounds are moving forward away from the firing pin. How do these even eject without a clip????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanti Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Tim,You must use the full or half moon clips. Your rounds are moving forward away from the firing pin. How do these even eject without a clip????????? Hi Bill was knocking out the cases with a plastic pen that part worked fine Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 you should only be able to use 45 auto rim without the moon clips You should easily be able to find more moon clips well before finding any 45AR brass, the clips are probably cheaper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Tim,You must use the full or half moon clips. Your rounds are moving forward away from the firing pin. How do these even eject without a clip????????? Ranch Products has some good moon clips. They are the cheapest I've seen yet. Something like $25 for 100 delivered. Check them out at www.ranchproducts.com -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Hi - complete 625 newbie with brand new 625 (with frame mounted firing pin).bent/broke the stock half moon clips in first ten minutes of ownership was told the gun should run just fine with rounds placed in cylinder with no clips without clips, am getting light primer strikes once every 6-10 rounds same experience with handloads and win wb 45 acp ammo question: should the gun run just fine without clips, or are the clips essential to getting the primer close enough to the firing pin? thanks in advance for any advice/experience, Tim Any way to get us an ultra close up of your reloads? Both of my 625's will fire ammo without moonclips because the gun is designed to space off the case mouth. The same is supposedly true for the 1911. So I would be looking for short cases and excessive crimping resulting in the same effect. Normally I would look for high primers too, you don't see very many on factory ammo, the the primer should feel level or even slightly below the level of the case head. This ASS*U*MES the gun was right to start with. If you've got some feeler gages check the space between the cylinder and the end of the barrel forcing cone for .005" - .008" gap. Then measure the end play (shake) of the cylinder back-and-forth in the gun. You would like to see <= ~.002". You said it was new and again I'll assume unmodified, but I have found guns from S&W to have problems in this area before. Of course, since it's new, you could just pack it up and send it back with the complaint it won't fire factory ammo with out a moon and let S&W look at it. Of course, everything works better WITH the moons on this gun. Get some more. Did you figure out what you did wrong to wreck the moons that came with the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanti Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 WalterMitty thanks for your reply. Win White Box misfires the same amount as my handloads so am discounting bad loads for the moment. About 6-7 duds out of an economy box of 100 WWB Do your pistols that fire nonclipped rounds perfectly have a firing pin in the hammer, or a frame mounted firing pin? I am wondering if something is amiss with the firing pin mechanism, cylinder end play did not feel atrocious on casual inspection About the half moon clips, didn't have any tools and they were impossible to unload by hand without twisting, hence breakage. thanks for your responses, and those from the other guys as well Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The 1/2 moon clips are pretty easy to screw up, I lost 1 of 3 I had. The other two I loaded with some ammo and will not empty them unles I have to (Coyote Loads). I never had any problems setting off good reloads, or new rounds, from my pc625 without using clips. Have only shot about 30-40 rounds like that though. The cylinder is chambered to catch a normally sized, taper crimped round and fire without a clip. Getting them to fall out is more problematic. But, there is a lot of room for tolerance stack and it doesn't take much to not fire. I have a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible that won't fire any 45 acp ammo unless it's brand new rounds. You don't have any grease or crud in the firing pin channel do you? Take a small screwdriver and press on the firing pin. It should come out past the frame and reset quickly. If it feels stiff, or gooey, try some Rem Oil (not wd-40) or a little solvent and some light air pressure (can of air). Full Moon Clips are the way to go, and for a 45 625 they're pretty cheap. Get some FMC's from Midway or Brownells and get that Wheel Gun turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 +1 to what the other guys are saying. Has the gun had any kind of work done to it? If your gun had the action lightened it probably won't light Winchester primers WITH the rounds in a full moon clip. If you're going to shoot revolvers (especially revolvers with light triggers) you're going to have to use Federal primers for reliable ignition. You mentioned that you reload so this is only a matter of changing brands. If this is a factory new gun than I would definitely call S&W up, from the factory the gun should light any kind of primer, pretty much with or without clips. My 625 has always been able to light rounds without clips, from when it had a factory trigger to a super light trigger (I had to use Federal primers with the super light trigger, though). The rounds do headspace on the case mouth, which is what allows the gun to fire them without clips. If you're firing really light loads a sharp rap on the back of the grip strap with your hand will eject most empties when the cylinder is held open. Any left over can be pried out with a fingernail. With higher pressure loads this no longer works well. The half moons are real easy to bend. I bent most of the few I had trying to get rounds out of them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [snip]Do your pistols that fire nonclipped rounds perfectly have a firing pin in the hammer, or a frame mounted firing pin? I am wondering if something is amiss with the firing pin mechanism, cylinder end play did not feel atrocious on casual inspection Both are frame mounted firing pins. I prefer them over the old style. If it is box-stock and will not light commercial ammunition 100% with or without a moon, it needs to go back to the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I believe to get reliable primer strikes in the single action mode you need the moon clips or 45 AR ammo. If you intend to shoot the gun DA with a lightened springs then you need to reload with Federal primers for consistent ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanti Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 I believe to get reliable primer strikes in the single action mode you need the moon clips or 45 AR ammo.If you intend to shoot the gun DA with a lightened springs then you need to reload with Federal primers for consistent ignition. thanks guys. the pistol misfires in SA and DA mode with Win WB ammo, light strikes approxiimately 1 ever 8 or 12 shots maybe? also, if you shake the gun the firing pin or something rattles around loose in that part of the frame, is that normal? best Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I believe to get reliable primer strikes in the single action mode you need the moon clips or 45 AR ammo. If you intend to shoot the gun DA with a lightened springs then you need to reload with Federal primers for consistent ignition. thanks guys. the pistol misfires in SA and DA mode with Win WB ammo, light strikes approxiimately 1 ever 8 or 12 shots maybe? also, if you shake the gun the firing pin or something rattles around loose in that part of the frame, is that normal? best Tim The noise is most likely the hammer block safety. Should be nothing to worry about. Since you are just getting started and have killed the first clips, try a set of RIMZ clips for the break in period. No tools needed and they will at least help until you get comfortable. TOLL FREE 1-866-726-2658 Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanti Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 follow up on my 625-8 Running the gun with Wilson full moon clips, the Win White Box fires 100% of the time. Even with the clips, it does not fire every fiochhi cartridge (typically 1 misfire out of 6). If the pistol continues to run Win WB perfectly with the full moon clips, I may not send it back. The action is very smooth and the pistol is very accurate and the object of admiration of fellow shooters so apparently a keeper. thanks for the advice, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvmichael Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Did you check to see if your main spring screw is screwed in all the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanti Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 Did you check to see if your main spring screw is screwed in all the way? Which is the main spring screw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zip308 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 You have to remove the grips first. It is the large slotted screw towards the bottom the of the butt. Make sure it is tightend all of the way in for a gun that has not had an action job done on it. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanti Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 You have to remove the grips first. It is the large slotted screw towards the bottom the of the butt. Make sure it is tightend all of the way in for a gun that has not had an action job done on it. Good luck It is tight. So, if I want the gun to fire Fiocchi, etc, may need bona fide gunsmithing done. As is it fires Win White Box in moon clips, which is pretty much the mission statement. thanks for all of the help Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 So, if I want the gun to fire Fiocchi, etc, may need bona fide gunsmithing done.Tim Try loosening the strain screw and placing a spent primer between the screw and the main spring and re-tightening. Then try the Fiocchi ammo. regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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