Single Stack Tactics

[mcb]

I have been shooting for about a year. All in Limited-10 with my XD-40 and just recently I starting shooting revolver. So I don't have any real personal experience with a singles stack, I don't even own a 1911 but I have been watching other shooters and thinking about the following.

Obviously there is very little reason to shoot Minor Open since your capacity doesn't change and the scoring difference is substantial. With Limited in most stages the difference in capacity from Major Limited (18-20) compared to Minor Limited (23-25) rarely gives the advantage to Minor since the extra capacity rarely save you a reload and the scoring difference easily offsets the rare elimination of a reload. Limited-10 is much like Open in that your capacity does not change so there is very little reason to shoot Minor L-10. Production is a mute point.

BUT... With Single Stack and the 8 round limit for Major and 10 round limit for Minor I think shooters will run into many more stages were the 10 round Minor is going to have an advantage over 8 round Major shooter.

For example: We had a stage this weekend at local club match that was seriously bias to the advantage of the Minor Single stack shooter. Stage two had a single array of 5 USPSA targets with shooting boxes set at three distances in front of the array. The shooter started in box A, the most distance box. On the start signal the shooter shoots 2 shots per target then move up to box B with a mandatory reload shoot 2 shots per target on the same array then move up to box C again with a mandatory reload and again shoots 2 shots per target on the same array. Comstock, score the best six hits on each targets.

A Major Single Stack shooter has three moving and three standing reloads. A Minor Single Stack Shooter only has three moving reloads. The advantage for the Minor shoot is very substantial on this stage. Give the stage has 30 rounds in a match of 4 stages with only 84 rounds that one stage alone could put a serious gap between the minor and major shooters assuming similar skill. At least one other stage in this match would have required a Major shooter to make one more reload than a minor shooter would have. I think two shooter of equal skill the Minor shooter wins nearly every time on this particular match.

I'm rambling a bit and I don't necessarily see this as a problem but I did think it was interesting that there might actually be division were shooting Minor might end up being more competitive. You might start seeing shooter show up with both a Major and Minor Single Stack gun and deciding which they are going to shoot after they look at that stages (not sure if that is allowed at larger matches so that may be a mute point).

What do you guys think. Are these the delusion of a relative green shooter or could Minor be more competitive in Single Stack?

mcb

[Flexmoney]

That is shitty stage design. Period.

[Alan Meek]

MCB,

Like Flexmoney said that is a poor stage design to begin with.

As far as Minor/Major in SSD. I feel there will be times in Level 1 matches where the minor (10rd Capacity) will have an advantage over the 8rd Major capacity.

But at a Major Match (Level II and above) I honestly feel that the 8rd Major will be the competitive way to go.

I believe that the Major 8rd capacity will be the most competitive that I am building a .45 single stack fot that very reason. I already have a single stack .38 super and I will use that at local matches from time to time and probably never use it at a Major match.

[ChuckS]

Hey Allan,

Another "stupid" gun?

[mcb]

That is shitty stage design. Period.

Hmmm... Why is that a bad stage design? With in my relatively limited expereince it seemed like a decent stage given the limited space for and indoor match. Are arrays of five targets the problem?

Just for discussion here is a quick stage diagram.

Thanks

mcb

[Skywalker]

What about switching the middle paper with a popper, making it 9-rounds friendly, and giving SS Major/minor shooters the same possibilities?

OK; I got it. It's not a 3-strings standard exercise...

Edited February 28, 2006 by Skywalker

[Kimberkid]

I thought it was illegal to mandate where reloads must be done, in a Comstock course of fire. Am I mistaken?

sorry for the drift

[JFD]

The 5 targets require 10 rounds per shooting position. The rules state no more than 9 rounds required. A local match can get away with it, as the rules allow for such a thing, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

[Bucky]

That is shitty stage design. Period.

No disrespect, but that is a little short sighted. Whether or not the coures are .... improper..., it doesn't mean it is not worth discussion. We see courses that don't abide by the rules all the time, and yes even at area matches.

[mcb]

Forgot about the 9rds from a position rule. Also Kimberkid mention that it may not be correct to mandate reloads in a comstock stage. Didn't know that either.

I still think there will still be many stages where Minor SS is going to have one or more less reloads than Major SS. I also think this will happen a lot more often than with limited guns. Will it be enough to make Minor competive I don't know but I think it could be possible.

Rambling

mcb

[Bucky]

I forsee the really gamey people bringing two guns to a match for SS division. One will be a .38 super, the other a .40 or .45. They will look at the match and then decide which to shoot. A match that is very 8 round friendly with lots of hard cover will warrant the major scoring vs. capacity. A lot of wide open targets, but situations where it is advantageous to shoot more than 8 or 9 rounds from a position, break out the minor gun.

You see, even if a course sort of follows the 9 round rule (didn't it used to be 8 for USPSA?), you still often see stages where,,, yeah I could take that target from another position (meeting the 8 / 9 round "neutral"), it's just much more advantageous to shoot 10 rounds from this position.

[Kimberkid]

Didnt mean to detract, as I also am very curious to see how it pans out. I think it would take a couple Big Dawgs shooting minor to give anything close to a definitive answer. I somehow dont see that happening.

[Crusher]

Flat out that was a BAD STAGE!

I rag on ALL stages/designers that do NOT fit within the confines of the rules for USPSA stages(AND YES, I TOO DESIGN/BUILD/BREAK DOWN STAGES).

WHY? you might ask, well the primary reason is, I belive, that it is the mission of local clubs to prepare new shooters to enter the arena of level II and level III matches. Granted many of the local level (level 1) club shooters will never shoot a level II or III match but that is not a valid reason to alter, change, IGNORE the rulebook and use the excuse "well it is the same for everone and the divisions are stand alone".

Piss poor stage design is just that piss poor stage design.

[Alan Meek]

Hey ChuckS,

One can never have too many guns of any caliber.

When you coming back out to VA?

Alan

Edited February 28, 2006 by Alan Meek

[Carmoney]

It will depend on the match. In thinking about this exact issue, I went back and looked at all my old match booklets from last year. Most of the time, the advantage goes with 8+1 round major. But I found a few major matches last year where I believe 10+1 round minor could have been the ticket, because enough standing reloads were eliminated to justify the scoring penalty of shooting minor.

There's another thread on this exact issue buried somewhere here on the forum where we talk about this in more detail.