WolfFox Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I have the Speer Manual. If you could only buy one more manual, which one would it be and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 vihtavuori manual hodgdon data Aliant data Ramshot Data Winchester Manual Here are some free online reloading manuals. I'd still get another standard manual. Welcome to reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightshooter1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Lyman's No. 48 would be my first choice because: It is newer than most, and it has loads for both jacketed and cast, and lists many different bullets and weights, with many loads for many different powders, and has loads which were the most accurate in their testing and which generally have been accurate for me in the calibers I load (mostly rifle) and which are a good place to start. (Some of them have proven more accurate with a little tweaking). Sierra's manual offers the same benefits except the bullets are limited to Sierra's only. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The actual bullet brand used is not important. It's the weight and diameter of the bullet that really matter. Get the Sierra manual ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 With the differences in bullet construction, different brand bullets will build pressures differently, even when the same weight and diameter. The Speer and other plated bullets are easier for the rifling to engrave than a conventionally jacketed bullet, making them build pressure a bit slower than traditional jacketed bullets. They do not, however, build pressures the same as lead bullets. Lead bullet load data is fairly universal for the weight, diameter and seating depth. You can use jacketed data with lead bullets, but don't use lead data with jacketed, as a general rule. Since different bullets and different guns will build pressures differently, the iron clad rule is to start low and work up, even using the data developed with the bullet you are using. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Guy is right in that I should have stated that the bullet brand is not important only if you follow established safety procedures by working the load up from a safe amount of reduction (5% reduced from midrange published loads and 10% reduced from max published loads). This is also only true when comparing apples to apples (ie, lead to lead and copper jacketed to copper jacketed and plated to plated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpnav Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Both the Sierra and Hornady manuals are great. I love using the on-line manuals, but they don't have all the other good info and articles that the actual paper copies do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody1961 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You can use jacketed data with lead bullets, but don't use lead data with jacketed, as a general rule. Would someone mind explaining this to me (I'm a new reloader). From my observations jacketed loads (generally) seem to be higher than for the same weight lead. In some cases there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason - enough that I won't even consider one for the other. Any schooling on this subject much appreciated in advance! Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfFox Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 vihtavuori manualhodgdon data Aliant data Ramshot Data Winchester Manual Here are some free online reloading manuals. I'd still get another standard manual. Welcome to reloading. Thanks for the free info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 The Sierra manual has good info, but I dislike the format. It's a 3 ring binder setup, which Sierra touts as a feature. The idea is the add your own notes and the semi-regular Sierra mailer comes pre-holed to fit the binder. However, the pages easily rip out of the binder and it's not a very sturdy package. Good data, bad packaging. I'd say the Lyman and Hornady manuals are good bets. The Lyman manual is very diverse and not too bullet brand specific. The Hornady manual comes with good ballistics charts, but covers Hornady bullets only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) I think the Honady 'Two Volume' set is a great combination. an older set like the Fifth Edition will give you most all the loads and plenty of information. that is Rifle standard info. the Second vol. will give you the Ballistic Tables The older set is cheeper on Ebay. Rifle bullets are very predictable and you can know what the drop will be in a 52 gr Amax 224 bullet will be at 300 or 800yards, by useing the book. If I range a field target at 600 yards and I am zero at 200 yards And My amoe has a MV of 3,400 fps I will have to hold over or adjust my scope 77.1" IF i am wrong any one in the nation can tell me. 77.1" = 12.85 minutes on my scope. Wind?= the tables can help me get very close... if i can read the wind Say if I have a 10mph cross wind at 600 yards that will give us apoz 51" of side hold. or 8.5 min on my scope to the side. The Point is that the 52 gr A Max bullet is not very good for over 500 yards. The 68 gr bullet only has 57" of drop and only has 23" of wind drift. It is fun to make a trip and have the bullets hit very close on the First! try out at 600 yards Edited February 22, 2006 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightshooter1 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 One of the benefits of the Sierra Manual, which I should have mentioned (though I still would pick the Lyman first), is that you can actually call Sierra and talk with the guys who put the loads listed in the manual together, discuss your gun/caliber with them and they will give you great advice on "tweaking" your load & gun to get the most out of it. I have called them a couple of times with minor problems/questions and always found them to be much like the Dillon guys-always willing to help, never talking down to you and always acting interested in your problem. I am unaware of any other company publishing loading manuals that you can call and talk to the shooters/techs themselves, though there may be some I just don't know about. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 One of the benefits of the Sierra Manual, which I should have mentioned (though I still would pick the Lyman first), is that you can actually call Sierra and talk with the guys who put the loads listed in the manual together, discuss your gun/caliber with them and they will give you great advice on "tweaking" your load & gun to get the most out of it.I have called them a couple of times with minor problems/questions and always found them to be much like the Dillon guys-always willing to help, never talking down to you and always acting interested in your problem. I am unaware of any other company publishing loading manuals that you can call and talk to the shooters/techs themselves, though there may be some I just don't know about. Bob Adding to that, Sierra often sends one of their techs to major matches. I've seen Carroll at IPSC matches, Steel Challenge and I know he goes to silhouette meets as well. Good guy and he knows everything about bullets, even if they're not Sierra bullets. I like the format of the Sierra and Hornady books in that they give load ranges instead of only min/max. You don't always get the velocity they print, but usually the range is pretty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Thanks for the free info! You're welcome. That's what we are all here for. As everyone else has mentioned, the online guides are no replacement for a good manual. I have the Lyman and like it. I do find myself sitting with all of my manuals open trying to figure out who has the best data for a particular load. The chronograph will be your best friend. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have Sierra, Lyman, and an old Speer. They are all good. This site has good info on IPSC loads..... http://home.columbus.rr.com/jmaass/ipscload.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 (edited) You can use jacketed data with lead bullets, but don't use lead data with jacketed, as a general rule. Would someone mind explaining this to me (I'm a new reloader). From my observations jacketed loads (generally) seem to be higher than for the same weight lead. In some cases there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason - enough that I won't even consider one for the other. Any schooling on this subject much appreciated in advance! Woody I'll try, but will be glad to be corrected if what I have been told is off base: If you've ever seen a freeze frame picture of a bullet leaving the barrel of a gun, you may have noticed that there is smoke and powder coming out of the barrel ahead of the projectile. Part of the burning powder actually makes it around in front of the bullet and beats it out of the gun. This powder doesn't add to the propellant push that gets the bullet up to muzzle velocity. A jacketed bullet will eventually bite into the rifling of the barrel (engraves, as the good Mr. Neill put it) and pick up spin, but, before it does that, some of the burning powder gasses leak around the bullet through the grooves in the rifling, decreasing the pressure. A lead bullet apparently engraves sooner, and perhaps more completely. Less gas escapes through the closed off grooves, more builds up behind the bullet and increases pressure, and bingo, greater velocity than with the same powder charge burning behind a jacketed slug. Alternatively, assuming all other things equal (which is actually hard to do) you need a bit more powder behind a jacketed bullet than a lead one of the same weight to get the same velocity out of the same barrel. OEM Glock barrels have no lands and grooves to speak of - the barrels have "polygonal" rifling. They seal better around the bullet as it goes down the barrel, and it is common to have a little extra velocity through a Glock barrel than one with standard rifling of the same length. BTW, I have Lyman and Vihtavouri Manuals. The Lyman is the most useful. Kevin C. Edited February 23, 2006 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Sory for the delay in responding, I've been traveling on business and have not been able to check in. For two equal weight bullets, one of lead and the other jacketed, the jacketed will normally build pressure faster than the lead bullet. This is because the jacketed bullet, as mentioned earlier, requires more force to fully engrave in the rifling since the jacket material is harder. The lead bullet, being softer, will move through the crimp easier and push into the rifling easier. This translates to the lead bullet, overall, being able to be used with higher power charges - up to a point. The drawback is that the lead, because of it's softness, will eventually deposit lead in the bore. Fit of the lead bullet to the bore is another important element in whether or not the lead bullet leads the bore. Thus, you will commonly see lighter loads for the lead bullets for two reasons. First, the factory lead bullets, such as those from Speer or Hornady, are swaged and lack the tin content of cast lead bulelts. This lack of tin results in a softer bullet that will lead sooner if pushed too fast through the bore. Cast lead will too, but normally will see some amount of increase in velocity over the swaged before leading the bore. Second, the lead bullets (especially those from the major makers) is commonly thought of for use with target (read light) loads. Because of this, much of the data is kept low, so we do not see the top pressure loads for these bullets. Now, the statement about the use of jacketed bullet data being okay with lead bullets stems from these two reasons. The jacketed data is most commonly developed to full allowable pressure. A lead bullet matching the weight, and seated so that no more internal volume of the case is taken than with the jacketed bullet, will not build more pressure than the jacketed bullet for the same powder charge. It may or may not lead the bore, depending on the lead hardness and the condition (and fit) of the bore, but the internal pressure because of the powder charge will not exceed that with the jacketed bullet since the lead bullet will move easier through the bore. If the bore does lead, then pressures can be increased with continued use of the lead bullets because the condition of the bore has changed. On the other hand, if a full pressure load is developed using lead bullets and you change to a jacketed bullet, the pressures will be increased because of the change to the harder jacket of the bullet. Still, load development should always begin low and work up because there are many variables that we cannot predict how they will stack up in a given application. I hope this clarifies things a bit. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I think its a good idea to have several manuals. Everyone agrees that you should back off from the maximum load and work your way up for safey. The question is, which max load do you believe. Do a little research and you will discover that even with the same bullet weight, type and powder, the max load varies quite a bit from book to book. I like to refer to at least three different sources and take an average. From that average I back off and work up. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I stand corrected (and better educated)! Thank you, Guy. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody1961 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I hope this clarifies things a bit. Thanks Guy - that clarifies everything perfectly! Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now