NODAK Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I,ve narrowed it down to STI Edge and CZ Tactical Sport but hi-cap mag availablity for the CZ is a concern where do you find them.Like the price of the CZ - any help out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alellis Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I,ve narrowed it down to STI Edge and CZ Tactical Sport but hi-cap mag availablity for the CZ is a concern where do you find them.Like the price of the CZ - any help out there. Yip. Thats what I narrowed it down to as well. Finally went for the edge. I won't have it for quite a while yet. angus hobdell seams to be an authority on CZ stuff. There is a cz forum online as well full of info. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Angus sells the mags http://ghostholster.com/catalog/product_in...&products_id=58 Taylor Freelance makes base pads that should work http://www.taylorfreelance.com/catalog/flo...52_products.htm Go with the CZ TS, better out of the box than an Edge for my money. Spend the difference on ammo. CZ TS available now...no waiting. Edited February 19, 2006 by Middle Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Both are great guns. Make sure and hold a CZ TS before you buy it, and work the safety.... it is a different grip, compared to a 2011 or 1911, and you need a long thumb or strange grip to work the safety easily. Make sure you like the feel of it in your hand before you buy. But if you like it, they are cool guns. Of course the 2011's are wildly popular too, all those people can't be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralChang Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Reasons to buy an Edge: STI Contingency program More aftermarket support Easy to find technical support from a whole bunch of different gunsmiths Support the company that supports our sport Did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I,ve narrowed it down to STI Edge and CZ Tactical Sport but hi-cap mag availablity for the CZ is a concern where do you find them.Like the price of the CZ - any help out there. I cant believe this is even a quaestion. CZ for a production gun maybe. For limited, open and limited 10 STI is a hands down winner, no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 A CZ would be competitive in Limited and Limited 10, as much as an ST/SV gun.. CZ-USA also supports USPSA....providing sponsorship of matches and shooters..( not as much as STI..but perhaps give them time..) there are tons of aftermarket parts and people who know the ins and outs of the 1911 gun..so the STI/SV gun is clearly ahead there... most of it will depend on what you shoot better...and what kind of support you have around you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Swim against conformity...shoot a CZ Seriously, all other considerations aside, best bet is how each fits and feels in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) I,ve narrowed it down to STI Edge and CZ Tactical Sport but hi-cap mag availablity for the CZ is a concern where do you find them.Like the price of the CZ - any help out there. I cant believe this is even a quaestion. CZ for a production gun maybe. For limited, open and limited 10 STI is a hands down winner, no contest. It is certainly a question in most of IPSC where the CZ or Tanfoglio tends to rule the roost - not the SPS or similar STI/SV. Chuck, I know you are an accomplished shooter with an STI. But the TS or Standard IPSC has almost NOTHING in common with a 75b and you really should try out or at least hold/dry fire a TS before you pan them. They really are great guns and very capable against S_I/SPS in IPSC. I would go with the CZ now that 140s are available. Edited February 19, 2006 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NODAK Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 I,ve narrowed it down to STI Edge and CZ Tactical Sport but hi-cap mag availablity for the CZ is a concern where do you find them.Like the price of the CZ - any help out there. I cant believe this is even a quaestion. CZ for a production gun maybe. For limited, open and limited 10 STI is a hands down winner, no contest. Chuck Can you give some technical detail's why the STI over the CZ.Why is worth another 800 bucks. Sorry if thats a stupid question I'm loaded with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NODAK Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 I live in North Dakota so I would have to go along way to handle the CZ Is the size of the grip a concern,larger or smaller than the STI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lombardo Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 The bigger issues with the CZ are parts availability and access to gunsmithing/tuning. If my S_I breaks down, I can diagnose it, tear it down and probably find a replacement part in a short period of time at a match. With a CZ, it aint that easy. It is really hard to detail strip a CZ pattern gun away from the bench. I also don't think there is any comparison between the CZ and a S_I as far as parts quality is concerned. Most of the CZ small parts are castings as is the frame. They just aren't in the same league in that respect. I am a fan of both, but the modular guns have a lot going for them once you figure the mags out. They run and run and run. The CZ-75 thumb safety position does not work for all shooters so you should try before you buy. My thumbs in combo with meaty hands make riding the thumb safety on a CZ a challenge. The CZ is a good choice for a limited gun on a budget. It is not in the same league as a modular gun or Caspian, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) The bigger issues with the CZ are parts availability and access to gunsmithing/tuning.If my S_I breaks down, I can diagnose it, tear it down and probably find a replacement part in a short period of time at a match. With a CZ, it aint that easy. It is really hard to detail strip a CZ pattern gun away from the bench. I also don't think there is any comparison between the CZ and a S_I as far as parts quality is concerned. Most of the CZ small parts are castings as is the frame. They just aren't in the same league in that respect. I am a fan of both, but the modular guns have a lot going for them once you figure the mags out. They run and run and run. The CZ-75 thumb safety position does not work for all shooters so you should try before you buy. My thumbs in combo with meaty hands make riding the thumb safety on a CZ a challenge. The CZ is a good choice for a limited gun on a budget. It is not in the same league as a modular gun or Caspian, IMO. +1 Well Said. STI Edited February 19, 2006 by Derek45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 So far, the responses have been "how silly of you to ask such a question" and "STIs are just better". I say flame on, but the STI is not a pistol that's worth 3x the CZ TS. By the responses I read, the people panning the CZ TS don't even realize the TS is a different setup than a CZ75. The TS is a 19/20 round magazine version of the CZ 75 with a swept beavertail high grip and a 5.3 inch barrel configured SA only. For the life of me I can't figure out what people are talking about regarding the thumb safety, on a CZ it's actually lower on the frame than a 1911 setup, how is this harder to reach? The TS even includes a factory thumb safey shield. What small parts are cast? Everything I've seen inside the CZ looks forged and heat treated (none of the pebbled texture you see on casted parts is apparent). The frame is cast, just like a Caspian. At the range, I can replace the firing pin, extractor, or sights with just a punch, hammer, and hex key. The CZ TS even comes with spare slide stops, which are probably the #1 breakage item on autoloaders if you don't count handloader squib-loads. The firing block with the hammer and sear are more involved to take apart, but are we seriously talking about running back to the car and swapping hammer and sear? Oh, and the TS mags just work, no need to spend money with a gunsmith to bend feed lips until the magazine will actually feed the pistol. Magazines for the TS are $40+$35 (for the +2.5 basepads). The CZ TS comes with 3 mags, vs. the 2 or sometimes 1 magazine for the STI. The CZ TS grip is big, but so is the STI. This should be a non-entity in this discussion, wide bodied pistols are wide. The STI dimensions are dictated by the magazine capacity issue, and likewise so are the CZ TS dimensions. I will say the CZ TS has a higher grip than the STI though, which I like. The CZ TS comes from the factory with 90% or what every shooter needs to shoot USPSA for about $950. Another $200 for a full length guide rod and magazines, and another $200 for a holster rig. At this point you've got 95% of what you need gearwise for $1350. If you want the other 4.999% get a STI, because it's a better pistol than the CZ TS. I can't argue that a custom pistol will out perform a TS, but I can argue that it's not neccessary to buy a $2500 pistol to make grandmaster in USPSA. If the CZ TS fits your hand, it's tough to not see the logic in considering the choice. The saving will buy you a Dillon XL 650 and a years (maybe two) worth of bulllets and brass. I've been away from the game for a few years and getting back into the swing of things. If I stick with it, I may consider a STI next year. We'll see how it goes with the CZ TS first. The list off things I'd like to change on the CZ TS: I wish the CZ TS mags would feed .40 S&W loaded out to 1.200" (can't think of a fix) A full length metal guide rod instead of the half length plastic rod ($30 aftermarket) Easier access to the ejector would be nice (can't think of a fix) Polycoated slide rather than blued (actually, a 100% matte chrome would be even better) Serations on the front sight (I'll probably go with a fiber optic front anyway) So there ya' go. I like the CZ TS, but I may get a STI next year anyway. Why? Well I like nice guns, and the STI is a cool heater. I'll be damned if I'm going to work my whole life and not buy nice toys. The CZ is a functional workhorse and when you're gathering all the various things you need for the game it's got a great price. It's got good cycle speed and there's nothing really holding it back, but the STI is a nicer package. The CZ just doesn't have the sex appeal of the STI guns, but it's a really fun gun to shoot. The TS has a factory 2 pound SA trigger and with 169 PF loads and the stock 18 pound spring rides flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Pros and cons to both. I love the way CZs and clones fit in my hands - even the larger size frames. The TS I've checked out is a nice piece, for sure. The safety that comes on it, though, doesn't agree with me. I prefer that huge wonkin' EAA one, personally (after some reasonable grinding). You could definitely do worse for a Limited gun. I shot a SA Witness in .45 for a while in Limited - it was a nice pistol (until the trigger bow cracked...) One fix for slide stop breakage, BTW, would be to discard the ability to lock the slide open, and just go to a plain round pin... used to do that w/ the CZ-ish race guns. It allows the pin to rotate, and not get beaten in one place. They last much longer, that way.... The Edge will have much more aftermarket and gunsmith support in the US. The word I get on the factory guns is that you might want to buy them through someone who will check them over and make sure they run before they send them on - though my understanding is that, of late, STI have been improving their factory quality. The Edges I've handled seem to be well built, overall. STI definitely is a huge support of our game. For me - even though I love how the CZs fit in my hand, I'd pick the Edge. It's chunkier, but with a little contouring on the grip, it's what I've grown used to, and love. But... I'd shoot an SP-01 in Production any day of the week, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) Xre wrote: "The Edge will have much more aftermarket and gunsmith support in the US. The word I get on the factory guns is that you might want to buy them through someone who will check them over and make sure they run before they send them on - though my understanding is that, of late, STI have been improving their factory quality. The Edges I've handled seem to be well built, overall. STI definitely is a huge support of our game. " That is a good point. One problem with the Edge is that historically, it won't run once you have paid 2x the cost of a TS. The guns all have to be sent out to tuners & gunsmiths before they can be relied on. Same with the magazines. Has that changed recently? One thing about the CZ is that it actually runs from the day you buy it. Same goes for the magazines that, unlike STI tubes- do not require tuning to function. As for support for the sport, STI is a huge supporter of USPSA (they deserve thanks for this). CZ-USA cannot provide the same level of financial support, but they do support USPSA and they attend many competitions. As for IPSC, the separate company "CZ" is a huge supporter of IPSC (as is Tanfoglio). Ihatepickles wrote: "So far, the responses have been "how silly of you to ask such a question" and "STIs are just better". I say flame on, but the STI is not a pistol that's worth 3x the CZ TS. By the responses I read, the people panning the CZ TS don't even realize the TS is a different setup than a CZ75. The TS is a 19/20 round magazine version of the CZ 75 with a swept beavertail high grip and a 5.3 inch barrel configured SA only." +1. Please voice your opinions. I believe my SV is a very capable Limited gun - but so are the two Standard IPSC .40s I own & use. However, the original question sought to compare these guns. The opinions by people who have never fired a TS or Standard IPSC in competition do not offer a comparison of the two guns. Also, the magazines for the TS and Standard IPSC were not invented until 1997 or so (i.e. during the AWB/Magazine ban). Thus, by definition, there never existed and "pre-ban" magazines for it - unlike all the STI "pre bans" we used to use ( ). Point is, the 140 mm magazines are brand new to the US and USPSA (what is 1.5 yrs to USPSA tech?). The CZ has not really had a chance to catch on in the USA and unfortunately for the TS, the CZ-USA Team is focusing on Production division rather than Limited. Regards, D.C. Johnson Edited February 20, 2006 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) By the responses I read, the people panning the CZ TS don't even realize the TS is a different setup than a CZ75. The TS is a 19/20 round magazine version of the CZ 75 with a swept beavertail high grip and a 5.3 inch barrel configured SA only.For the life of me I can't figure out what people are talking about regarding the thumb safety, on a CZ it's actually lower on the frame than a 1911 setup, how is this harder to reach? The TS even includes a factory thumb safey shield. The safety is lower, but is more "forward" on the grip... and take a slightly different, more forceful flick to disengage - and is harder to "ride" for those with shorter thumbs. I'ved owned, shot and competed with a CZ Standard IPSC, and have shot a CZ TS as well. You're right in that most USPSA people don't know the difference in a standard CZ, and it's large frame competition cousins. However, I assure you that I (and I suspect most of the above posters as well) DO know the difference, and I have to tell you from practical experience, the thumb safety is hard to reach/manipulate/ride for SOME on the CZ ST or TS. If your hand fits it perfectly, so be it, but for a lot of people it doesn't. I'm not bashing the CZ, its a great gun for the price, but I merely suggested an interested buyer should at least hold one before buying, to get it's "feel" if at all possible. Sound advice for any gun purchase, I'd hope. EDITED: Ok, here's my STI vs CZ TS comparison: The SV/STI guns (when properly set up) in general shoot flatter, with less felt recoil for me. If somewhat sharper recoil impulse and more front sight up/down oscilation does not bother you, the CZ TS is a heck of a gun, and can be very competitve, if you take the time to master it. Each to his own. I've owned S_I's in 5" and 6" trim, Glocks, a CZ ST, and others for Limited - I currently am shooting a 5" Edge type STI as I feel it gives me the best all around feel, for me. But it did cost more than a CZ (about $300 more, I got it used ) ) So my recommendation is a used STI Edge w/ several mags, usually avail on the USPSA classifeds for under $1400 or so if you shop a little. But get your mags tuned. But if just love to do things differently the CZ TS is a good starting point, and the price is right. Edited February 20, 2006 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 sfinney wrote: "the thumb safety is hard to reach/manipulate/ride for SOME on the CZ ST or TS. If your hand fits it perfectly, so be it, but for a lot of people it doesn't." Agreed- and that is a good point. Also, the only option I know of in the US is to try to custom-fit a Tanfoglio part to a CZ - not easy to do. In this regard, I agree that advantage goes to the STI/SV/SPS and all the thumb safeties out there for all size hands. If you have big hands / long thumbs, there is no disadvantage. Here is another negative to consider: the TS is a heavy gun. To some that is a plus. Otherwise, you might be better off with an STI/SV/SPS without all the heavy parts (remove the tungsten barrel sleeve, brass magwell, tungsten rod). Also, it is a fact that there are fewer custom parts for the CZ. But - question is: does it need any custom parts? The guns run fine as they come from the factory. Regards, D.C. Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) I bought My STI EDGE with the intention of working all the bugs out of it. I got the gun from Brazos, not sure what Bob did but the gun has been 100% reliable and wonderfull from day one. There were no bugs to work out. Mags, I buy the tubes from Brownells, stuff 'em with Grams kits, and they also run 100%. Niether the gun, nor the tubes needed any tuning. Maybe I got lucky. The way all the CNC parts fit together is wonderfull. I think the CZ is a nice gun, but the STI is a GREAT Gun ! Edited February 20, 2006 by Derek45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Right - that is my point: -You did not buy an STI. You bought a Brazos. Why did you choose a Brazos over an STI? Or put another way, have you ever bought an older, new, unaltered STI (from STI) that worked 100%? I am not trying to bash the STI/SV/SPS platform. I shoot an SV usually. I am simply pointing out truths about both the S_I/SPS vs the CZ to let the shooter make in informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Right - that is my point:-You did not buy an STI. You bought a Brazos. Why did you choose a Brazos over an STI? Or put another way, have you ever bought an older, new, unaltered STI (from STI) that worked 100%? I am not trying to bash the STI/SV/SPS platform. I shoot an SV usually. I am simply pointing out truths about both the S_I/SPS vs the CZ to let the shooter make in informed decision. No, I bought a stock STI .40 EDGE from Brazos. Not one of his custom guns. Why Brazos? I called around, all the STI distributors, and narrowed it down to Brazos, or Shooters Connection. Both support the sport, and this site, and have great reputations. Beacuse I had already bought an SVI from Chuck, years ago, I decided to support Barzos this time. They had the gun in stock, and were easy to deal with. I don't know what Bob at Brazos did to the gun. I can tell none of the parts replaced with aftermarket, nothing looked hand polished or tweaked. I imagine He probably test fired it, and sent it on it's way. the only thing I asked him to do was add his fiber front sight. My mags didn't need any tuning either, stock STI tubes from brownells, with Grams guts. When I bought this gun, I expected to spend some time working the bugs out of it. Truth is, it's been wonderfull from day one. 100% reliable, and very accurate right out of the box. The gun is made from hi quality steel, CNC machined to tolerances that years ago, you'd have to spend a ton of time and money to have gunsmith'ed. Once STI / SVI arrived on the scene, they dominated the sport. The CZ / EAA /P9 guns have not. Your theory that the STI guns / mags need extensive tuning to run is not what I have experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Man, how did this thread get here? Guy asked a simple question about 2011's and CZ Tactical Sports... I have both types of pistols. The SVI I have is a work of art. The STI I have is not as good in fit and finish, but it still works. The Tactical Sport I have is a mass produced pistol with some hand fitting that cost 1/3 of the SVI and about 1/2 of the STI. All shoot about the same. I like the TS better, and not just for the reason that CZ-USA pays some of my shooting bills. To me, the TS fits my hand better, the controls are all located just a little better than 2011 pattern guns and I like the fact that I have a shot at winning matches with a box stock TS. I shoot the TS better than 2011 guns and I think its due to having a little more sight radius and a better trigger feel. The only downside to a TS is the fit and finish is not quite as good as an SVI or STI, but who cares, its still really good for a mass produced pistol. The people who say the TS isn't good hasn't shot one much, if at all. Or if they did shoot one, they did it with 2011 blinders on. Oh yeah, mags are available. I think I have perfected getting 20 in the mag, and its reloadable and it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Oh yeah, mags are available. I think I have perfected getting 20 in the mag, and its reloadable and it works. I'm curious about this, please see this topic, which I started so that this discussion doesn't become diluted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I have added all the constructive content I have to offer on this thread. For those w/ specific q.s on the matter, please send me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I'm going to put this thread in time-out. It seems opinions are getting a bit edgy. This isn't worth getting mad at one another about. If the thread starter would like some more input, please just drop me a PM and I'll open the thread back up. Matt, please share some info on those mags in the other thread. KF Forum Admin. Posting Guidelines Attitude Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. Please – no antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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