another grip question and effects of point of impact

[jimbullet]

Anyone experience having confirmed sights on target, looking at front sight which appear to not have moved and yet point of impact goes off to the left? I see the sights lift and return and yet the impact has veered off

 

I feel it could be a grip issue. Is it better to put pressure into the grip by clamping down more of the weak hand thumb so that the meat of that thumb adds a side pressure. This effectively puts the weak hand thumb pointing at the target. Or is it better to have the thumb at a neutral state.

 

Trying to diagnose why Im shooting left when I feel the sights tracked well and looking at the sights, it was not disturbed at point of firing. The left impact appear to be consistent say for 2 or 3 rounds and then I get a dead center and after a while, its left again.

[-JCN-]

@jimbullet there is a chance that the sights are moving but your vision isn't tuned in to micro-movement. I know shot calling for me is a lot more difficult with irons than dots. You're looking for a micro judder at the time of press before the sights lift... it can be very subtle.

 

If you want to confirm it, you can set up a camera on the muzzle and record in slow motion. You'll see the muzzle flinch right before ignition if you're pulling left.

 

Grip can help mitigate a bad trigger press... but it's better to get your trigger press squared away.

 

 

[Blackstone45]

Have you tried this with a red dot? It'll be a lot easy to see the 'micro judder' as JCN puts it. It will look like the dot doing a little dance to the left just before the shot happens.

[shred]

Also make sure you aren't blinking or moving your eyes or switching attention. Your brain makes stuff up to fill gaps.  The "Stopped Clock Illusion" is a good example.  Brian talked a lot about 'paying attention to his facial muscles' in the way-back on here.

 

 

[jimbullet]

I’m definitely not blinking as that was one that I checked as well but didn’t think about the micro judder. I’ll have to check on that this weekend. 
 

 

[Twilk73]

You need very little grip strength with your trigger hand and enough pressure with your support hand but not so much that the gun starts to wiggle from the struggle. Your thumbs do nothing. With that said, I press on the side of the gun with my support thumb slightly. It’s a habit I never got away from but it doesn’t affect my shot. 
 

When you pull the trigger press to the wall and then, press, press, press some more until it surprises you and the gun goes off. 
 

My guess is you’re using a lot of pressure to grip the gun with the trigger finger hand and you’re influencing the gun to the left with the press, squeezing the hand. 
 

Or I misinterpreted the question lol. 
 

Grab a stress ball and squeeze it with just the weak hand. Press the invisible trigger while attempting to keep your other fingers and thumb from moving sympathetically. Release the pressure from the ball slightly until you can pull the invisible trigger without moving your other fingers. 
 

Scientifically, your hand is either mapped in your brain as a claw or 5 fingers depending on how you use your hands daily. If your a mechanic like me you might benefit from doing some finger yoga. 

[lgh]

Jim - What pistol are you shooting?

[jimbullet]

2 hours ago, lgh said:

Jim - What pistol are you shooting?

2011 bul 

[jimbullet]

16 hours ago, Twilk73 said:

You need very little grip strength with your trigger hand and enough pressure with your support hand but not so much that the gun starts to wiggle from the struggle. Your thumbs do nothing. With that said, I press on the side of the gun with my support thumb slightly. It’s a habit I never got away from but it doesn’t affect my shot. 
 

When you pull the trigger press to the wall and then, press, press, press some more until it surprises you and the gun goes off. 
 

My guess is you’re using a lot of pressure to grip the gun with the trigger finger hand and you’re influencing the gun to the left with the press, squeezing the hand. 
 

Or I misinterpreted the question lol. 
 

Grab a stress ball and squeeze it with just the weak hand. Press the invisible trigger while attempting to keep your other fingers and thumb from moving sympathetically. Release the pressure from the ball slightly until you can pull the invisible trigger without moving your other fingers. 
 

Scientifically, your hand is either mapped in your brain as a claw or 5 fingers depending on how you use your hands daily. If your a mechanic like me you might benefit from doing some finger yoga. 

Interestingly enough I’ve been trying out to increase pressure on both hands equally to control an issue of having a high shot placement. I found earlier that I was consistently hitting steel plates at couple of inches higher. This meant that I had to hold six o’clock with a gap/ space below the target. Note this was very consistent when shooting at speed. 
 

when I increased pressure, the shot placements when right where the front sight post  is eliminating the gap. But then a a of late these left horizontal shots started to appear. It’s not low left but horizontally left and was grouping. 

[waktasz]

If the sights are aligned and on target when the bullet leaves the barrel, it's impossible to miss.

[lgh]

21 hours ago, waktasz said:

If the sights are aligned and on target when the bullet leaves the barrel, it's impossible to miss.

This.

 

Trigger finger placement can affect accuracy. This is especially true with Glocks where "more finger" can fix a RH shooting left. i.e. shoot with the first knuckle on or close to the trigger. I haven't heard of the same issue with SA pistols.

[jimbullet]

14 hours ago, lgh said:

This.

 

Trigger finger placement can affect accuracy. This is especially true with Glocks where "more finger" can fix a RH shooting left. i.e. shoot with the first knuckle on or close to the trigger. I haven't heard of the same issue with SA pistols.

definitely experienced this with Glocks and I would blame trigger geometry on this and have done the same - sinking more trigger finger in as if shooting revolver almost to correct the issue.

 

 

[jimbullet]

Thanks all for the input. I've kept a closer focus on what my sights are doing. Will see how it goes. On dry fire, did notice some judder when pressing the trigger, so will try to eliminate that - maybe backing off on the grip tension not the firing hand a tad as well and will see how that pans out on the range.

 

 

[IVC]

The problem is in shot calling. 

 

You have to see the sights at the moment they start moving in recoil, not at the moment when you made the decision to shoot. Think of shot calling as a process, rather than a moment in time. You observe the sights from the moment you become aware of them and you keep the awareness as you commit some mental and physical actions. The observation doesn't end when you make an action (decision to shoot, pull the trigger), but it ends when the gun makes the move. 

 

Keep observing the sights throughout the process and make sure that you stop observing only when they "disappear" in recoil. As @waktasz pointed out above, if the sights are on target at the time the bullet leaves the barrel, it's impossible to miss. The corollary is that if you miss, you did not make the mental picture of the sights at the correct moment in time. 

[IHAVEGAS]

Shooting 10 round 20 yard head shot groups seems to help me see what I am doing.