tactical vs emergency reload

[ATMester]

can I do tactical reloads at will,  or have to do emergency reloads in idpa?

is it a choice given to the shooter or dictated by the stage description ?

thanks,

 

[Diver123]

You can do Tac reloads at will with a caveat or two. You cant tac reload while exposed to unengaged targets .Unless there is no cover anywhere on the stage then reloading and topping off is allowed. So a tac reload is allowed in that instance at any time. Where you can get bit is running empty behind a fault line then stepping out and exposing yourself to surprise or in the open targets, even if not technically visible until you move further through the stage. If they are hidden behind vision barriers you are still considered exposed. The stage description cannot dictate the type of reload period. As long as all reloads are done in accordance with IDPA rules you are good to go. If I missed anything Im sure someone will chime in.

[LHshooter]

 

6 hours ago, Diver123 said:

You can do Tac reloads at will with a caveat or two. You cant tac reload while exposed to unengaged targets .Unless there is no cover anywhere on the stage then reloading and topping off is allowed. So a tac reload is allowed in that instance at any time. Where you can get bit is running empty behind a fault line then stepping out and exposing yourself to surprise or in the open targets, even if not technically visible until you move further through the stage. If they are hidden behind vision barriers you are still considered exposed. The stage description cannot dictate the type of reload period. As long as all reloads are done in accordance with IDPA rules you are good to go. If I missed anything Im sure someone will chime in.

Just want to clarify what you said to make it a little clearer to the OP. You cannot leave a point of cover with the gun out of battery if you will be exposed to a surprise target or a target in the open. If the gun runs empty while you are in the open engaging targets you can perform a slide lock reload. But you cannot move into the open while performing a reload (either a tac reload or emergency reload) if you will be exposed to a target. A bunch of guys at my local clubs have fallen into this trap.

[RangerTrace]

10 hours ago, LHshooter said:

 

Just want to clarify what you said to make it a little clearer to the OP. You cannot leave a point of cover with the gun out of battery if you will be exposed to a surprise target or a target in the open. If the gun runs empty while you are in the open engaging targets you can perform a slide lock reload. But you cannot move into the open while performing a reload (either a tac reload or emergency reload) if you will be exposed to a target. A bunch of guys at my local clubs have fallen into this trap.

And this rule drives me nuts.  Only because it's ok to go empty while exposed, but not prior to being exposed.  

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, RangerTrace said:

And this rule drives me nuts.  Only because it's ok to go empty while exposed, but not prior to being exposed.  

Reloading before you are exposed would get you killed in a real gun fight. 

[Jim Watson]

With consideration for cover and concealment - MD here likes to play "vision barrier" games - you may reload any way that does not leave ammo behind.  They would rather you went to slide lock but a Tac load or a loaded chamber/empty magazine reload is acceptable.  The type of reload is no longer specified in the CoF.  

[Racinready300ex]

14 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

With consideration for cover and concealment - MD here likes to play "vision barrier" games - you may reload any way that does not leave ammo behind.  They would rather you went to slide lock but a Tac load or a loaded chamber/empty magazine reload is acceptable.  The type of reload is no longer specified in the CoF.  

 

Locally they play vision barrier games too.

 

You can reload in the open, but if there is a target around the corner behind a wall but the wall doesn't have a fault line you can't leave cover with a empty gun or do anything but a slide lock reload in the open. So you just step out of cover round dump to empty as you advance in the open and reload from slide lock.

 

Personally I hate round dumping, and it really annoys me when stages are built so you have no choice but to dump lots of rounds. This is where uspsa is so much better, they give you all the ammo in the world but every extra shot you take punishes you. Meanwhile IDPA we make it rain with extra shots everywhere. 

[Diver123]

 

26 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

You can reload in the open, but if there is a target around the corner behind a wall but the wall doesn't have a fault line you can't leave cover with a empty gun or do anything but a slide lock reload in the open. So you just step out of cover round dump to empty as you advance in the open and reload from slide lock.

 

Is the wall solid and not see through? Or even if you cant see through it shoot it a few times and people stop playing games fast. Walls shouldn't be used as vision barriers. Vision barriers can get shot. Barrels are a better option.

 

6.5.27.1 Vision barriers are soft cover objects such as barrels, tents, fake trees, sheer curtains, etc., that are used to block or occlude the view of a target or group of targets. 6.5.27.2 Vision barriers are soft cover and may not be impenetrable or designated as hard cover.

 

4.7.1 Stage props are commonly used to represent hard cover or impenetrable objects such as walls, cars, barricades, and furniture such as desks and file cabinets. Truly impenetrable objects may also be used as hard cover in a stage

[Racinready300ex]

32 minutes ago, Diver123 said:

 

Is the wall solid and not see through? Or even if you cant see through it shoot it a few times and people stop playing games fast. Walls shouldn't be used as vision barriers. Vision barriers can get shot. Barrels are a better option.

 

6.5.27.1 Vision barriers are soft cover objects such as barrels, tents, fake trees, sheer curtains, etc., that are used to block or occlude the view of a target or group of targets. 6.5.27.2 Vision barriers are soft cover and may not be impenetrable or designated as hard cover.

 

4.7.1 Stage props are commonly used to represent hard cover or impenetrable objects such as walls, cars, barricades, and furniture such as desks and file cabinets. Truly impenetrable objects may also be used as hard cover in a stage

 

I see walls and barrels used as VB. Most walls you can see through for safety reasons. If you ask about shooting through a VB you'll be told no and possible DQ'd for intentionally shooting their walls. It's easier to just round dump in the open and move on. 

 

I've seen this from the club level to level 3 matches. Not anything higher then 3 in this area. 

[LHshooter]

4 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

You can reload in the open, but if there is a target around the corner behind a wall but the wall doesn't have a fault line you can't leave cover with a empty gun or do anything but a slide lock reload in the open. So you just step out of cover round dump to empty as you advance in the open and reload from slide lock.

 

 

At our local NC Tier 3 match last year we had a stage set up with a surprise target behind a barrel as you left cover. A bunch of people did just what you said, they stepped out of cover, dumped rounds, reloaded and then blasted the surprise target when they got on top of it. Others didn't understand the rule, got a PE and bi*&%ed and moaned about the rule. 

[Racinready300ex]

33 minutes ago, LHshooter said:

At our local NC Tier 3 match last year we had a stage set up with a surprise target behind a barrel as you left cover. A bunch of people did just what you said, they stepped out of cover, dumped rounds, reloaded and then blasted the surprise target when they got on top of it. Others didn't understand the rule, got a PE and bi*&%ed and moaned about the rule. 

 

It's really confusing, and if you don't know what you're looking for I can see someone watching it done correctly and then not doing it correctly themselves and not even realizing it. Sometimes it's as little as pick one foot up step over fault line and fire one more shot. Vary subtle difference to catch in a split second. 

 

See if I can explain this right. I shot a stage that at at a level 2 last year. From p1 there were 3 targets two close 1 far. Depending where you stand you might not be able to see one of the close targets due to a vision barrier. But, since vision barriers aren't cover you should be required to shoot both close then the far target. But you we're allowed to shoot close, far close because the target that you couldn't see you weren't exposed too. You could see this target at P2 also. So it was asked can I just not engage it and wait until I get to p2? No because it's behind a vision barrier and you're exposed to it so it must be engaged before leaving P1.

 

Gets worse, at position 2 there was three targets you had to shoot in order. The second target was behind a vision barrier and needed to be activated to see it. You couldn't shoot the 1st and third then activate. You had to shoot the activated target second because it's behind a vision barrier.

 

I'm probably screwing this up to some extent, it was super confusing but to sum it up they were handling vision barriers differently from position to position within a single stage. The SO didn't seem super sharp, I blame it on that. I just shot it the way he told me too. 

[LHshooter]

Reminds me of a stage at the tier 4 space coast challenge last November.  There was a stage where at poc 2 there was a wall going downrange.  There was one mover on the rh side and 2 on the lh side. All 3 were activated at the same time by dropping a box on the table. The SOs were letting people shoot the targets in any order with no regard to tactical priority or being exposed to a target. It was a confusing stage but we shot like they said we could which made it a little easier.

BTW that was a great match. I think there were something like 25 or 30 movers, some of which presented multiple times. That club has got great props. Wish I could shoot there on a regular basis.

[Racinready300ex]

56 minutes ago, Nile said:

Tactical Reload: The purpose is to prevent shooting dry. Let's say youre in a shoot house and you encounter three targets and put three rounds in each one. If you have a 12+1 round mag that would leave you with 4 rounds. You would grab a fresh mag off the belt, and with the same hand, eject the current mag and replace with a fresh mag - seat the new mag and stow the old, then continue through the house. 

 

There is almost zero need for a tac load in todays IDPA. I can't remember the last time I did one.