627 38 super conversion

[Makicjf]

Despite all of the logical reasons to the contrary, I still find myself lusting after a short case open revolver capable of safely hitting 165 pf.  

I know any open shooting in USPSA is just practice for "A"core.  I know there is no practical reason for "more power". 

I can justify it. I mean a 38 super Revo will shoot 9mm, too.  I can load 9 for a pcc and the Revo will share it...

Okay. A big stretch..

I want a short case major pf open Revo.

Does anyone have experience with the TK 38 super conversion?  

Would converting a 627 or a V comp be an option?  

Foolishly,

Jason

[pskys2]

Don't think the 38 super n frames can shoot 9mm without reaming the cylinder.  And they use different moon clips.

 

Why not a 627 with 38 specials, you can reach major with it.  If you go custom barrel and add a real comp and 6"+?

 

Jess kicked my butt at least years free state with a special.

 

But I got it, doesn't have to be reasonable to be desirable.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by pskys2

[Bill Sahlberg]

Brownell's  has 38 Super Moon clips for the 8 shot 627 38/357 that fit 38 super (084-000-090)

 

No reason to shoot major as the 8 shot in USPSA only scores minor.

 

DM for pix

[perttime]

25 minutes ago, Bill Sahlberg said:

...

No reason to shoot major as the 8 shot in USPSA only scores minor.

...

 

Unless you want to shoot Major, perhaps with a comp, in Open. Just because.

[Makicjf]

1 hour ago, pskys2 said:

Why not a 627 with 38 specials, you can reach major with it.  If you go custom barrel and add a real comp and 6"+?

This would be reasonable.  38/44 data easily makes major.

   The only reason I don't like loading specials is case length vis a vis powder fill.

 I can't visualize powder easily in special cases without stopping , leaning forward and shining a flashlight.

 I should load up a few hundred and see if I like it.

 I do have some 38/44 hog loads with H110 that makes 1200 fps, but that is excessive.

I think getting 1060 with 160's might fall below 90% case capacity.  I sure as heck would have enough gas to work the comp!

I'll give specials a try for now.

  

[pskys2]

I shot a stage, mid match, once with full power magnums 125 sjhp at 1450 f/s, using starline brass and tight moon clips.  Scared the RO a bit, even though I'd warned him.  Thumped the hand but worked just fine.  A full load of 2400 or H110/296 will definitely fill a case.

I read where a European Revolver competitor had loaded Short Colt or Long Colt to major PF back when we had only 6 shots in IPSC.  Don't know how it worked in the long term for him though.

Might be as simple as finding the right powder and setting up a light on your press.  I ended up putting a mirror and a light on my 1050 so I can look right down into the case.

[Makicjf]

16 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

I shot a stage, mid match, once with full power magnums 125 sjhp at 1450 f/s, using starline brass and tight moon clips.  Scared the RO a bit, even though I'd warned him.  Thumped the hand but worked just fine.  A full load of 2400 or H110/296 will definitely fill a case.

I read where a European Revolver competitor had loaded Short Colt or Long Colt to major PF back when we had only 6 shots in IPSC.  Don't know how it worked in the long term for him though.

Might be as simple as finding the right powder and setting up a light on your press.  I ended up putting a mirror and a light on my 1050 so I can look right down into the case.

If I could find Unique, I'd be set. I have loaded thousands of 1060 fps 38/44 loads for my 92 357 and GP 100. (Low key prepper stash)

   Unique,however, is unobtainium.

I could use my 38/44 "end of days" stash for this, but they are wide flat nose rnfp's. Great for deer and hogs, insufferably hard to speed load into a Revo.

  I'll sort it out.

Thanks!

Jason

[gargoil66]

49 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

This would be reasonable.  38/44 data easily makes major.

   The only reason I don't like loading specials is case length vis a vis powder fill.

 I can't visualize powder easily in special cases without stopping , leaning forward and shining a flashlight.

 I should load up a few hundred and see if I like it.

 I do have some 38/44 hog loads with H110 that makes 1200 fps, but that is excessive.

I think getting 1060 with 160's might fall below 90% case capacity.  I sure as heck would have enough gas to work the comp!

I'll give specials a try for now.

  

Jason:

 

Talked with Sr. Sahlberg a couple months ago about this and he said his 627's take 38 Super as is.  Just have to size them down a bit with a Undersized sizing die.  I have a bunch of .38 Super Brass and tried it.  They fit my 627's.  Problem is that there was like zero gap between the brass and frame.  Would rotate, but once a moon clip was used, wouldn't rotate.

 

I looked at the TK site about converting a 627 cylinder to .38 Super and they warned that it would only work using factory load overall lengths.  OK -- but why I wonder?

 

As for a lot of space in the brass of .38 Spl.  I would doubt it if loading for MPF.  I also use a powder checker which really is worth the money and it taking up a station on a progressive press.

 

I have both a AA Academy buzzer powder checker and a Hornady powder checker die.  Both have saved me a number of potential problems.  Difference is that the AA one buzzes and the Hornady die you need to look at every time you run a piece of charged brass into it.  Between the two, the Hornady die is easier to set up and is a visual indicator of how much powder is in the brass.  But -- you have to look at it every time a piece of charged brass is run into it.  

 

The buzzer type is difficult to adjust and basically only tells you if you have no charge or have double charged.  Yes, you can set them so a slightly undercharged case triggers them but I found that to be problematic.  

 

So if you intend on trying .38 Spl and are worried about powder charges, get a powder checker die.

 

GG

 

 

[Pseudonym]

7 hours ago, pskys2 said:

I read where a European Revolver competitor had loaded Short Colt or Long Colt to major PF back when we had only 6 shots in IPSC.  Don't know how it worked in the long term for him though.

Might be as simple as finding the right powder and setting up a light on your press.  I ended up putting a mirror and a light on my 1050 so I can look right down into the case.

I remember some post from shooters in Italy and Germany were cutting down 38 special cases and loading 200gr RN bullets.  I have a saved post where Sascha Bach/Cooper_999 from Germany was loading 38 short colt to major PF for IPSC will link below(information is near bottom of first page).
 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Pseudonym

[perttime]

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I remember some post from shooters in Italy and Germany were cutting down 38 special cases and loading 200gr RN bullets.  I have a saved post where Sascha Bach/Cooper_999 from Germany was loading 38 short colt to major PF for IPSC will link below(information is near bottom of first page).
 

 

That reminds me...

At the upcoming IPSC European Handgun Championships in Greece, some Revolver shooters have considered not shooting Revolver, because Greek law prohibits reloading and, therefore, they cannot take their empty cases away from the range.

 

Some have pretty laboriously created brass. From IPSC Revolver Division FB page: "that means leaving roughly 500-600 hand made trimmed and fireformed cases on the ground if I want to shoot the match, since my 929 does not accept 9x19 mm cases reliably with match accuracy (I use .38 Special brass cut to 21 mm and loaded in 9x19 dies)"

[testosterone]

You can make major in a 38 short colt case with dozens of different 9mm major recipes.  Likewise, you can do same with 38 long colt and any number of 38 super major loads.

 

929's are properly a 9x21 cylinder, this brass can be obtained from starline easily enough and translates over to 38 super -.2 to .4 charge and will also easily be major.   There used to be a guy that shot uspsa locally that had a 9x21 2011 because he bought a an actual 55 gallon drum of new 9x21 lapua brass at an auction for next to nothing.

 

I have been thinking alot in recent days about revolver loads and because I have a machinist local to me now that is exceptional and fast,  experimenting with some things.   I have been shooting a lot of 2011 in 9 major(173pf)  lately and I will never not be shocked by a gun that, when shot, if you do nothing but have a firm neutral grip, returns the dot EXACTLY to the same spot, it just seems impossible yet that is exactly what it does.

 

I want a revolver that will do that, not that i think it will help me do any better, my good days are way bahind me, but its like an academic challenge.    There are 9mm steel loads that are deep in minor pf that do work comps and popples correctly, i don't see a reason why a 2011 comp could not be on the end of a revolver barrel that has some popple holes and achieve the same thing.

 

[MWP]

7 hours ago, testosterone said:

You can make major in a 38 short colt case with dozens of different 9mm major recipes.  Likewise, you can do same with 38 long colt and any number of 38 super major loads.

 

929's are properly a 9x21 cylinder, this brass can be obtained from starline easily enough and translates over to 38 super -.2 to .4 charge and will also easily be major.   There used to be a guy that shot uspsa locally that had a 9x21 2011 because he bought a an actual 55 gallon drum of new 9x21 lapua brass at an auction for next to nothing.

 

I have been thinking alot in recent days about revolver loads and because I have a machinist local to me now that is exceptional and fast,  experimenting with some things.   I have been shooting a lot of 2011 in 9 major(173pf)  lately and I will never not be shocked by a gun that, when shot, if you do nothing but have a firm neutral grip, returns the dot EXACTLY to the same spot, it just seems impossible yet that is exactly what it does.

 

I want a revolver that will do that, not that i think it will help me do any better, my good days are way bahind me, but its like an academic challenge.    There are 9mm steel loads that are deep in minor pf that do work comps and popples correctly, i don't see a reason why a 2011 comp could not be on the end of a revolver barrel that has some popple holes and achieve the same thing.

 

I’m excited to see what you come up with. Rich, Jerry and I all took different approaches to our open guns. I do they there is some more experimenting to be done though.  

[MWP]

20 hours ago, perttime said:

 

That reminds me...

At the upcoming IPSC European Handgun Championships in Greece, some Revolver shooters have considered not shooting Revolver, because Greek law prohibits reloading and, therefore, they cannot take their empty cases away from the range.

 

Some have pretty laboriously created brass. From IPSC Revolver Division FB page: "that means leaving roughly 500-600 hand made trimmed and fireformed cases on the ground if I want to shoot the match, since my 929 does not accept 9x19 mm cases reliably with match accuracy (I use .38 Special brass cut to 21 mm and loaded in 9x19 dies)"

I saw that too. Seems like a silly reason. Losing brass is part of a match sometimes. And whatever time it takes to make that brass doesn’t even come close in comparing to preparing for a match. 

[10mmdave]

Losing brass !?! say it ain't so !!

I tell everyone that's why I shoot revo in these games, hell in USPSA around here people find me to get a moon clip back to me I left on the ground !

 

Making brass isn't so bad for me, though yes, it takes some time on the users part. A winter project.

I cut down a bunch of 38 spcl brass brass years ago, probably got 10 or more reloading thru it at 130 pf.

I cut down a bunch of 38 spcl nickel brass, RP brand, and after 5 or so loadings some are starting to crack.

(I use nickel for ICORE/USPSA, my old brass brass for SC now so I can tell at glance what I got)

 

One thing I would caution folks on, either do it all un-sized or all of it sized, I did both and the un-sized brass grew in OAL length after sizing, though now that I think about it, it's all in same bucket now and I'm not seeing any issues?

Well at least I relayed what I found, use it for what it cost you.