Limited G35 Mag Issues?

[boo radley]

Lately I've been shooting my G35 in Limited class, using two second-hand magazines I bought with Dawson baseplates. I can cram 20 in there, but have been using them in 19+1 configuration.

However -- I've been experiencing jams, more and more frequently. Someone on one squad suggested I was "dragging my thumb," but I'm not so sure -- I think it's one of the magazines. What happens is the round won't feed properly, and the slide gets stuck partially closed. This seems to almost always happen with the first few rounds -- after that it's fine.

Is this symptomatic of a weak spring? I've ordered a new Dawson baseplate, spring, and an extra spring, so I can have 3 x identical 20-round mags, regardless....

[Rocket35]

There is a link somewhere that talks about this. I will try to find it and link it if I can find it. But essentially it is about this subject. I was having similar issues until I read that thread and now I have not had any more problems. Rough translation of the thread was:

With the fully loaded magazine in your stronghand- use your strong hand thumb and press down on the top round in the magazine and pound the bottom of the magazine on your other hand. Thus making the rounds settle into the magazine. You will notice less pressure on the top round. What is happening is the rounds are binding the slide- thus slowing it down. Give it a try, I think this will solve your problem. It solved mine.

[eric nielsen]

I could write a 1000-word thesis on mag cleaning and mag loading/prepping. Not sure that's your problem but the short answer is that Glock mags don't need to be cleaned and prepped up as diligently as mags for other autopistols, but Glock mags still need to be cleaned and they need to be loaded & prepped with a little care. Are you using the Glock mag loader to top off the mag? The loader is free, I'd use it.

I have a routine for all that & the result is pretty much no feed jams at all for me in about 7 or 8 years. Only exceptions would be in practice, if I'm messing around with different recoil springs, which is rare.

Which brings you to [possibly] your real problem which is too much recoil spring. If your feeding jams involve bullets nose-diving onto the bottom of the feedramp then what you have is a short-cycling gun. Usually that's from too much recoil spring but thumbing the slide as the gun fires will do it too.

A good test if it's really just the mag would be to shoot weak-hand-only some. If you then get these feedjams even after shooting 5 or 10 rounds out of the mag, you have too much recoil spring. If it's still only choking the first round or two then look at prepping up the mag better.

In any case, you should be able to push the top round down below flush with the feedlips of the mag. If you can't push down that far, you shouldn't load 20 rounds.

HTH

[boo radley]

Hmm -- good stuff, you two. I knew nothing of "prepping" the magazine. I've just been shoving 19 or 20 rounds in the mag with my thumb, usually cursing the last round.

I thought the problem was not ENOUGH spring, and figured mine had worn out, (since I don't know the prior history). I thought it didn't have enough "oomph" to shove the first or subsequent round up.

I will do some more experimentation. I don't think I'm letting my thumb interfere with the slide, because I've shot 1000's of problem-free rounds when practicing with the 10-round and factory 15-round mags I have.

I do notice: problematic magazines have a follower marked "5" and the body of the magazine says "LEO/Govt Only". On my factory 15-round magazines, the follower is marked "6".

Possibly I should try the springs, Dawson pads on the 15-round factory mags I have?

[chp5]

I could write a 1000-word thesis on mag cleaning and mag loading/prepping.

I have a routine for all that & the result is pretty much no feed jams at all for me in about 7 or 8 years.

Eric,

What's your routine?

I've had some of the same issues with mags with extended basepads. I've never had the same issues with mags without the extended basepads. My smith slightly changed the angle on the feed ramp and I've had no more issues, but I still want to know your routine!!

[Flexmoney]

- What mags do you have?

- Using a light recoil spring?

- How do you know you aren't dragging the slide with your thumbs?

[chp5]

- What mags do you have?

- Using a light recoil spring?

- How do you know you aren't dragging the slide with your thumbs?

* mags: 3rd Gen Glock mags, #5 or #6 followers, ISMI mag springs, Arredondo base pads.

* Recoil spring: 15 lbs spring or stock Glock spring (had FTF with both springs and 3 types of guide rods).

* Dragging slide with thumbs: Don't think so, but could be.

[eric nielsen]

Cy

Here’s how I baby my mags - maybe too much effort but that’s better than not enough. Do this and you might be different from the rest of the shooters on your squad, but then the total lack of feed-jams will be different too.

Home:

I take each mag apart, look at the spring & make sure it’s not kinked, look at the follower & make sure the legs aren’t chewed up, look at the feedlips for parallel using calipers. I run a dry rag thru the tube followed by a rag that’s damp with brake-cleaner, followed by a silicone rag [not Pledge - used to use that but it builds up wax over time] & reassemble.

My ammo has whatever Hornady One-Shot is left after rolling it in a towel. Doesn’t seem to build up or get tacky since I keep my loaded ammo in Ziplock bags.

Match:

I don’t load mags until I get to the range. I load up my big stick plus one other hicap prior to the walkthru - that pretty well covers whatever my first stage will be. I load each mag by hand until there’s 10-12 rounds in it. Then I smack the back of the mag into a hard, halfway clean surface like a table or my cooler. Then I use the mag loader and load 2 rounds at a time, stopping to smack the mag after every 2-4 rounds.

--I like to know for sure when it’s full so I usually count up from the 2nd-to-last witness hole. For Glock17 that’s the 15th round. Once it gets to 16 you can’t tell if its 16 or 20 so that’s why I count. Minor point I guess.—

Once the mag is full I use the mag-loader to push down on the top round & see if all the rounds spring up again. Repeat several times, then put the loader away somewhere that it's easy to find. Then I smack the back of the mag on a table again. Then I hold the top round down with my thumb and smack the bottom of the mag into a table. If I’m feeling superstitious I do those last two moves again.

If there’s dirt blowing around the range, the mags will stay off my belt & in my bag until I’m 2 shooters away from my turn.

LAMR:

Always use a stoker mag, usually that’s just one round which leaves the stoker empty. Sometimes [new gun, only have 4 mags or similar] I’ll use a full mag to stoke the gun but that will be with the slide locked back – easier to seat the mag in the gun that way. The mag that’s seated after the stoker will still be stacked up exactly the way I loaded it which makes me more confident.

For speed shoots I’ll only load 4 extra rounds in each mag, so shoot8-reload-shoot8 courses will have 12 in each mag. More than 4 rounds dropped on the ground can really beat on your feedlips. [Caspian HiCap shooters are all nodding in agreement now] Same goes for the first mag of a field course if I need a mag change – if I plan to shoot 16 then mag change, I’m not gonna start with the Big Stick and 27 rounds. Exceptions would be loads & loads of distant steel, or a Texas Star.

After a stage:

Any mag that hits the ground gets cleaned. Start by unloading the rounds that are in the dirty mag into a towel. Clean off those dirty rounds before they go back in the bag. Then I disassemble the dirty mags & run a clean rag followed by a silicone rag and reassemble. Lots of people use a brush but I like a rag or paper towel jammed thru the mag with a long screwdriver. I think it gets more junk out of the gun, especially powder debris. That’s why I’ll clean my Stick after 2 or 3 stages, even if it didn’t hit the ground.

Edited December 16, 2005 by eric nielsen

[chp5]

Thanks Eric.

[Rocket35]

Eric-

Spoken like a true professional! Thanks

[Flexmoney]

* mags: 3rd Gen Glock mags, #5 or #6 followers, ISMI mag springs, Arredondo base pads.

The mags that come with the #6 followers are different.

[WildWest N AZ]

I was having issues with my Arredondo base pads also. It was only the one mag though 5 or 6th round it would jam in the last few weeks. I called them afew times and Arredondo is sending me a new one for free. I did all the check you loading and the way your stooting your gun and my recoil spring is stock. The other one cycles fine so maybe it just had a bad spring in my issue could it be the springs in his mags?

Its strange the stock stuff always works fine until you put aftermarket add ons is were you seem to run into trouble from time to time?

[boo radley]

I really "prepped" all my mags this weekend, in fact I literally have bruises on my knees from banging the baseplate, while pressing down with my thumb.

Now I don't know WTF to think. Everything ran "better," but I still had some problems. One stage was horrible -- constant jamming, along with two light-primer strikes. My salvation was that a new shooter didn't set up the swinger properly, and I got a reshoot.

How much is cold weather an influence in magazine feeding and Glocks? That certainly seems to be a common denominator, as the last couple matches have been shot in the 40's. Second, is there anything "spring-related" in the gun itself that could be an issue? I have the Ralph Sotelo kit, which replaces pretty much all the springs, I think except the recoil spring, and there I have a 15-lb ISMI and tungsten rod.

I think *some* feeding issues are attributable to not prepping the magazines properly. In other instances, I think my grip might be interfering with the slide. But I think there's something else, too....

[Rocket35]

Boo,

Your recoil spring is on par with the standard. But I am not 100% familiar with Ralph's trigger kit. I haven't tried one. I have my trigger down to about 2 and 1/2lbs, and feel it is good enough. You might want to give Ralph a call or email and see what he has to say. The light primer strikes are another animal all together IMHO. Make sure your primers are of the softer variety (WSP, Federals). I use WSP exclusively and with my springs they are 100% unless it is close to zero degrees. I did have some recently that I am attributing to the cold. But it was below zero with the wind chill. I am going to install a new Wolff reduced striker spring though in the event that it was getting worn out. I would suggest you do the same unless you already have recently.

[Sean Gaines]

I really "prepped" all my mags this weekend, in fact I literally have bruises on my knees from banging the baseplate, while pressing down with my thumb.

Now I don't know WTF to think. Everything ran "better," but I still had some problems. One stage was horrible -- constant jamming, along with two light-primer strikes. My salvation was that a new shooter didn't set up the swinger properly, and I got a reshoot.

How much is cold weather an influence in magazine feeding and Glocks? That certainly seems to be a common denominator, as the last couple matches have been shot in the 40's. Second, is there anything "spring-related" in the gun itself that could be an issue? I have the Ralph Sotelo kit, which replaces pretty much all the springs, I think except the recoil spring, and there I have a 15-lb ISMI and tungsten rod.

I think *some* feeding issues are attributable to not prepping the magazines properly. In other instances, I think my grip might be interfering with the slide. But I think there's something else, too....

I wouldn't think that cold weather would effect glock mags, or glocks in general. I personally use Arredondo base pads, with the wolf 10% extra power spring, with great success. you can buy them through Wolf or Arredondo. In fact when you buy the arredondo base pads, you have the option to buy the 10% extra power mag spring. do it and don't look back. As far as your recoil assembly that should be ok, I use the 15lb also with a captured steel guide rod.

As far as your light primer strikes that is caused from the lightened striker spring that is put in there to give the nice trigger pull. I personally dont have the RT trigger conversion, have felt them and they are pretty nice. I did my own trigger work and use the wolf competition trigger pack that wolf sells (Which I believe is the same springs that he is putting in his trigger packs) and had light primer stikes also, so switched back to the factory striker spring, and factory trigger spring because that broke while shooting a match with not very many rounds through the gun. If you are using the RT trigger pack then you may want to consider using federal small pistol primers, which are softer. If you are already using Federal's then you may want to go back to factory springs.

Hope this helps

pk

[chp5]

Boo,

Do you have these problems when you run a stock 15 round Glock mag?

If you haven't tried it, you should consider it to see if you can isolate the problem.

Edited December 19, 2005 by chp5

[boo radley]

Boo,

Do you have these problems when you run a stock 15 round Glock mag?

If you haven't tried it, you should consider it to see if you can isolate the problem.

chp5 -- no problems with the 15-round factory mags until this very weekend. That's why I was asking about the temperature.

As far as the primer strikes, yup I figured that was a seperate issue. The RSotelo kit has been pretty flawless in both the G34 and G35 otherwise; I think it's possible my primers might have been a tad high in these reloads, and there's not the margin for error with the reduced striker spring. <shrug>

I'm using Winchester small pistol primers.

The mag feeding issues, I'm still perplexed, but going to solve it during practice. I've mostly been shooting the 34 when I practice, because I have a cubic meter of 9mm loaded up, but need to focus on the 35, label all the mags (something I haven't done), and really debug this. It's frustrating beyond belief, when this happens in a stage, as y'all know.

I'm still thinking some of this is due to my grip not being perfect, and not feeling it with the cold weather and bare hands. I know I sometimes notice my thumb hitting the extended mag release....

[eric nielsen]

As mentioned, the Glock is the least needy gun as far as prepping mags. If they are clean inside and have matching parts [mag body, spring and follower] then you're probably good to go for 1000s of rounds with no malfunctions.

From what you wrote, my #1 suspicion is: Too much recoil spring. This often hides itself until the stage requires you to shoot from an awkward position like leaning around a wall with a foot fault that keeps your body behind the wall. Your position lets your body move more & this absorbs recoil - the slide has less to push against & it short-strokes.

New shooters and especially spouses/children of experienced shooters, without a lighter recoil spring they have these problems many many times. Their chosen match gun worked fine for them in practice but they didn't practice the devious positions cooked up for a match.

As far as primers & Glocks, the main thing is NOT what the rounds look like after you're done loading. It's the amount of force you use [and feel] on each round. Depending on the brand of brass and the amount of gunk left in the primer pocket, you may see 3 different depths on 3 consecutive rounds and yet they may all ignite just fine. Or all 3 go dud.

After you reassemble your Glock after cleaning, you should check the freedom-of-movement for your striker. Dry-fire the [empty] gun and then shake it forward & back. You should hear the striker rattling around, making a "tink" noise. If you don't hear that you need to pull out the striker assy, look at the spring cups, look at the striker tunnel, etc.

[Rocket35]

I'm still thinking some of this is due to my grip not being perfect, and not feeling it with the cold weather and bare hands. I know I sometimes notice my thumb hitting the extended mag release....

I too had problems hitting the extended slide catch with my support hand. So I went with the standard one. The extended mag release gets in the way sometimes also. But without that my reloads are a bit slow for my tastes. I am thinking about shortening it up also. But in Production you don't have those luxuries! I am only shooting Limited and Open right now though. It will help to number your mags. Then you can pick out the trouble maker!

[atmar]

i had ftf issues once on my g22, i'm using ang ipsc legal arredondo basepad +3, tungsten rod, 15lb. ismi spring, and glokweight by jentra, i figured all these add on's were causing my slide to go faster, what i did was, i changed my mag spring to the strongest mag spring i could get my hands on, a 14coil ismi mag spring, that cured my problems, hth! goodluck!

[TruStreet]

All the advice that everyone has provided is great. I wish I had known about this site when I was having ISSUES with my mags... What no one has mention is that the mags (being old), may be out of spec. Matt from Custom Glock Racing told me about this and directed me to his web site to get the specs. Sure enough they were way off ... A little tighting with a c-clamp and they were OK! Also Frank A. told me that Wolff Springs were the only springs that were made to worked with his base pads!

Edited December 21, 2005 by TruStreet

[chp5]

Also Frank A. told me that Wolff Springs were the only springs that were made to worked with his base pads!

TruStreet - who is Frank A?

[TruStreet]

Also Frank A. told me that Wolff Springs were the only springs that were made to worked with his base pads!

TruStreet - who is Frank A?

That would be Mr. Arredondo, The guy who made the base pads being used.

[chp5]

Also Frank A. told me that Wolff Springs were the only springs that were made to worked with his base pads!

TruStreet - who is Frank A?

That would be Mr. Arredondo, The guy who made the base pads being used.

Got it - thanks.

Although I thought his name is Ralph . . .

[Mad Scientist]

Also Frank A. told me that Wolff Springs were the only springs that were made to worked with his base pads!

TruStreet - who is Frank A?

That would be Mr. Arredondo, The guy who made the base pads being used.

Got it - thanks.

Although I thought his name is Ralph . . .

Maybe it is, but the guy I spoke to was Frank Arreedondo maybe a brother or cousin