TSA Competition Kit (P320) - what's the verdict?

[uhmeebuh]

On 11/25/2022 at 11:24 AM, fireman1776 said:

Thanks. I priced out an AXG conversion kit and it's basically the cost of the entire gun with the FCU. I was debating trying the axg lower with my x5 5" upper but I hadn't heard any reports on it. 

 

I took advantage of the black friday sales to pick up an AXG pro for under $1k and will sell the AXG grip. That was the only way the money math made sense to me as well. 

 

While I really like the AXG with the palm swell LOK grips, I've learned how to contour and apply silicon carbide to the TXG grip so that's my huckleberry

 

 

19 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Yes.  I am curious as to how it runs vs 5" barrel variants.  I am trying to get my P320 Platform as close to my Athena as I can, too keep handling/indexing the guns as close as possible.  It seems to be working with what I have created.  I have yet to test stuff back to back, or on the clock.  That will come in the next month to see how they stack up.   

 

I have both the 5" max slide and the 4.7 pro cut and they are within an ounce of each other.  My buddies (many of whom also shoot P320s) like the shorter slide like I do - it's less nose heavy, swings better, is a bit faster, and is pretty damn nice...  I have found you need the 14lb spring and to cut some coils off to find the right balance of speed, muzzle dip, and preference.  The 12lb was too light IMO - it wouldn't stay in battery well enough.  

[Boomstick303]

15 minutes ago, uhmeebuh said:

I have found you need the 14lb spring and to cut some coils off to find the right balance of speed, muzzle dip, and preference.  The 12lb was too light IMO - it wouldn't stay in battery well enough.  

 

I have never liked how any of my Sig P320s run with springs under 14 lbs. 

 

I have thought about cutting a couple of coils once I have the time to watch the gun in slowmo.  What 14 # spring are you running?  Which guide rod are you running in your current setup.  Are you running normal or Brass Lok Grips?

 

Atlas has indicated they feel the shorter barrel is the way to go with the 9mm caliber, which I am seeing some validity to in my limited testing.   

Edited November 28, 2022 by Boomstick303

[jaep1911]

Just got the TSA trigger kit with the cradle trigger and it is phenomenal. While I am not concerned about a creep in general, this kit does not have it. I am using the factory trigger bar spring and -50% sear springs from TSA. I tried -25% sear springs first but the trigger pull felt a lot heavier. Switched them to -50% springs and the pull felt good. Just shot 200 rounds with the kit (and the Lockwood slide from GG) and it felt amazing. I may get another one for my back up gun.

 

My slides (X5, Legion and Lockwood Slide) still have the vertical movement as I pull the trigger though.

[echotango]

56 minutes ago, jaep1911 said:

 

 

My slides (X5, Legion and Lockwood Slide) still have the vertical movement as I pull the trigger though.

No trigger is going to get rid of that. Put a loaded magazine in it and it goes away. It's no big deal they are all like that. 

[uhmeebuh]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:35 PM, Boomstick303 said:

 

I have never liked how any of my Sig P320s run with springs under 14 lbs. 

 

I have thought about cutting a couple of coils once I have the time to watch the gun in slowmo.  What 14 # spring are you running?  Which guide rod are you running in your current setup.  Are you running normal or Brass Lok Grips?

 

Atlas has indicated they feel the shorter barrel is the way to go with the 9mm caliber, which I am seeing some validity to in my limited testing.   

 

I use the longer legion 5" 14lb springs and cut a couple coils off to find a good balance of lock up, speed and muzzle dip for my grip strength.  I also run the normal steel guide rod but have been meaning to test a shorter tungsten guide rod just to see how it does.  I've been moving to shorter and lighter in my pistol as my transition speed and footwork has picked up.  I'm a bigger dude so some of the normal issues are just replaced with new/different ones

 

The guy I used to made a custom TXG grip has decided to stop doing it...so I learned how to countour, match finishes, add silicon carbide, and add palm swells.  I tried the AXG grip but didn't like a hot spot under the trigger guard for my XL hands and how short it was for reloads.  

 

I have a few Atlas' and have had most of them the return to zero is mostly true and one of the reasons I moved to the shorter pro cut slide.  I found my transitions were faster with the lighter front end than my Max slide, the slide was faster, and the return to zero was about the same as the longer/heavier slide.  Still can't beat a compensated barrel though!

 

[Boomstick303]

20 hours ago, echotango said:

No trigger is going to get rid of that.

 

Not sure if it is the combo, of the Shorter Barrel/slide of the AXG Pro, the Barstow barrel, and/or the trigger.  I am using the AXG Pro with the Gunsmith fit Barstow Barrel, the TSA drop in trigger and I have zero slide movement when dry firing without the mag.  I was shocked as I have observed slide movement will every P320 I own. 

[HOGRIDER]

 

You think the GS fit Barstow had anything to do with that improved lockup? 

Edited December 13, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[Boomstick303]

2 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

You think the GS fit Barstow had anything to do with that improved lockup? 

 

I am not sure exactly.  I can play with it in the next week to see if the Barrel is truly locking that up so tight by switching to the original stock barrel.   I have put about 500 rounds through the gun, without any issue.  I still want to play around with the aftermarket 14# 1911 spring.  I have not taped operation of the gun as of yet, to tune it perfectly, but its pretty close if not there as currently constructed.  

 

I have noticed with my Compact and Carry versions of the P320 platform that I do not see as much deflection in the Barrel/Slide assembly when pulling the trigger as I see in the 5" P320s.  The groups on those guns are also better with comparable ammo.  I imagine barrel/slide length being longer is a component of that deflection we see, but to what degree I have no idea.  

 

The current AXG Pro with the TSA trigger, Barstow barrel, Tungsten Guide Rod with Brass Lok Grips is by far my favorite P320 Variant I have shot to date.  

[HOGRIDER]

53 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

I am not sure exactly.  I can play with it in the next week to see if the Barrel is truly locking that up so tight by switching to the original stock barrel. 

Looking forward to your results!

 

[erwos]

I bought a couple of the TSA kits, and installed one of them tonight.

 

There weren't any instructions, so I had to follow a GG kit install video I found. It more or less did the job, except for the roll pin removal (which was fairly obvious). The TSA access block made that mildly easier to manage. The rest of it was straightforward. I did find the trigger bar connection to be a huge pain in the ass, but I figured it out eventually. End result was a 2.25lb trigger with a much improved reset, pre-travel, and over-travel. The reset is not super positive (I used the -20% springs), but I've never been breaking the speed limit with my splits anyways.

 

One thing that was not obvious was that the trigger only apparently functions with the included striker (TSA block made the striker swap much simpler, too). If you are swapping slides, as I do from time to time, that's a consideration. I may go Keres+springs in my other two P320s just to maintain flexibility.

 

ETA: installed kit #2 this morning. Much faster the second time around. Interestingly enough, the end result is a little different than kit #1 in that the trigger return is more positive and .25lbs heavier. Probably just tolerances in play. Not sure which I like better. I don't think either kit is quite as good as the Timney+Vox+MinusConnector I have in my G17, but every other thing about the P320s works best for me, so I can live with that.

 

But both kits are a huge improvement over the stock config, and unlike the Keres-based alternative solutions, there's no set screws to cause potential problems later on.

Edited January 8, 2023 by erwos

[Speedwagon]

I installed one of the SA kits in one of my X5 Legions and super happy with the feel of the trigger now. I had the Gray Guns competition kit in it but it the trigger still felt "mushy". I'm not sure I want to spend the 300 to put one in my back up gun. I use these video's and found them to work best for me. 

 

Sig Guy disassembly.

Sig Guy reassembly.

 

Along with his tool kit.

 

Hope this helps.

[erwos]

I am having an interesting problem with one of the guns I installed the TSA kit into. Basically, it randomly stops working every five to seven rounds until you rack the slide again. Trigger pulls, but nothing happens, it never seems to start the break. I am not having this problem with the other TSA kit gun using the same mags and ammo.

 

I swapped the trigger spring out just in case I had bent it going in somehow, but that did not do anything to resolve the issue. Nothing else looked particularly out of place when I compared the working and non-working FCUs. I have not tried doing a slide swap yet.

 

Any ideas? I'll probably call Robert Burke about it on Tuesday if I can't find an obvious problem.

[echotango]

58 minutes ago, erwos said:

I am having an interesting problem with one of the guns I installed the TSA kit into. Basically, it randomly stops working every five to seven rounds until you rack the slide again. Trigger pulls, but nothing happens, it never seems to start the break. I am not having this problem with the other TSA kit gun using the same mags and ammo.

 

I swapped the trigger spring out just in case I had bent it going in somehow, but that did not do anything to resolve the issue. Nothing else looked particularly out of place when I compared the working and non-working FCUs. I have not tried doing a slide swap yet.

 

Any ideas? I'll probably call Robert Burke about it on Tuesday if I can't find an obvious problem.

Double check your over travel screw. Similar thing just happened to a buddy of mine. Post is a couple down from here.

[Boomstick303]

12 minutes ago, echotango said:

Double check your over travel screw. Similar thing just happened to a buddy of mine. Post is a couple down from here.

 

TSA kit does not use over travel screw.  He has created a new trigger and other modifications to remove pre travel and over travel.

 

As for the OP I would contact TSA (who I believe is Robert Burke if memory serves me correct) to have him help you.  He will most likely know what is causing the issue before anyone on the board.  

[echotango]

3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

TSA kit does not use over travel screw.  He has created a new trigger and other modifications to remove pre travel and over travel.

 

As for the OP I would contact TSA (who I believe is Robert Burke if memory serves me correct) to have him help you.  He will most likely know what is causing the issue before anyone on the board.  

He does make one that you use your own Keres/AC trigger. Not sure what he has. 

[uhmeebuh]

21 minutes ago, echotango said:

He does make one that you use your own Keres/AC trigger. Not sure what he has. 

 

From my chats with Robert (who's great and accessible for those who don't know) he said he doesn't like mixing/matching triggers as it impacts the safety and action.  

 

But maybe that's changed with the newest versions?  

 

[erwos]

37 minutes ago, echotango said:

He does make one that you use your own Keres/AC trigger. Not sure what he has. 

I have the full competition kit, which includes a factory Legion trigger with welded overtravel stop.

[HOGRIDER]

6 hours ago, erwos said:

I am having an interesting problem with one of the guns I installed the TSA kit into. Basically, it randomly stops working every five to seven rounds until you rack the slide again. Trigger pulls, but nothing happens, it never seems to start the break. I am not having this problem with the other TSA kit gun using the same mags and ammo.

 

I swapped the trigger spring out just in case I had bent it going in somehow, but that did not do anything to resolve the issue. Nothing else looked particularly out of place when I compared the working and non-working FCUs. I have not tried doing a slide swap yet.

 

Any ideas? I'll probably call Robert Burke about it on Tuesday if I can't find an obvious problem.

@erwos

IMO, you need to remove/file/stone a bit off the trigger's overtravel stop.  

 

If possible, install a stock trigger to verify prior to modification..........

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by HOGRIDER
update

[echotango]

2 hours ago, uhmeebuh said:

 

From my chats with Robert (who's great and accessible for those who don't know) he said he doesn't like mixing/matching triggers as it impacts the safety and action.  

 

But maybe that's changed with the newest versions?  

 

Well money talks. He sells a kit without his trigger specifically so you can use a Keres/AC.  C.O.R.E. kit 

Edited January 16, 2023 by echotango

[uhmeebuh]

6 minutes ago, echotango said:

Well money talks. He sells a kit without his trigger specifically so you can use a Keres/AC.  C.O.R.E. kit 

Nice - I didn't know that

 

I have a kit from him with a tuned flat legion trigger which is now too sloppy and introduced some issues (after 10k rounds).  I then moved to his curved trigger which took a bit of adjustment but I like it better now than my straight triggers...

 

I like that he supports other triggers - his set of parts is really a nice upgrade for the whole trigger system (safety bar, sear, striker, etc).

[jaep1911]

2 hours ago, erwos said:

I have the full competition kit, which includes a factory Legion trigger with welded overtravel stop.

did you have the legacy GG trigger kit prior to the TSA kit?  The legacy GG kit uses a tube on the trigger stop pin. If it’s still there, that creates a short stroke.

 

pS: don’t ask me how I know this….

[erwos]

3 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

@erwos

IMO, you need to remove/file/stone a bit off the trigger's overtravel stop.  

 

If possible, install a stock trigger to verify prior to modification..........

 

This was my guess, too, but I didn't want to mess with Robert's fine work before I talked to him about it.

 

No other parts have been installed in either of these P320 X5 Legions; it literally went "remove magwell, install DPP, install TSA kit".

[erwos]

OK, I called Robert today, and he told me that like 5-10% of X5 Legions (P320s?) have tolerances stacked such that you need to use the enhanced power trigger spring to get the disconnector to reset reliably. This does make sense given the behavior I was seeing, so I put it in and we'll see what happens next time I run it. I was super-impressed with the customer service, he picked up on literally the first ring on a federal holiday, and seemed really interested in helping me. Great guy!

[pcar157]

14 hours ago, erwos said:

OK, I called Robert today, and he told me that like 5-10% of X5 Legions (P320s?) have tolerances stacked such that you need to use the enhanced power trigger spring to get the disconnector to reset reliably. This does make sense given the behavior I was seeing, so I put it in and we'll see what happens next time I run it. I was super-impressed with the customer service, he picked up on literally the first ring on a federal holiday, and seemed really interested in helping me. Great guy!

Robert is awesome, no question. He is THE Sig Armorer!!!!

[Boomstick303]

16 hours ago, erwos said:

Great guy!

 

By far the most responsive customer care I have ever had in any industry let alone the gun industry.