Which 9mm crimp die with a Dillon 650

[kornface13]

I've been loading Eggleston munitions 147 gr for many years, and recently got a new CZ 75 PCR.  My reloads don't go into battery in this gun.  Well 1 out of 10 don't, but obviously that's enough to be no bueno.  The loads are fine in every other pistol I own, including other CZs.  Anyways, I've been trying to figure out whats wrong and slightly change my loading but I cannot get it working.  I think my Lee crimp die (which is completely bottomed out on my Dillon 650) isn't fully undoing the expansion from the Dillon powder feed expansion thing, but I'm struggling to prove it.  

 

A resized case plunks fine.  After expanding and crimping, it doesn't fully drop into my case gauge, but just barely touching it it does slide right in.  Then I have to gently push it back out rather than it free falling out like factory ammo does.  Is it common for the Lee crimp die to not work super well with the 650?  What die should I grab instead to try out?  The rest of the lee dies seem great so I'd really just want to replace the crimp die.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I'm completely out of ideas and things to try besides buying new stuff.  

[Sarge]

Things I would check:

make sure the sizing die is actually just kissing the shell plate.

try to shorten the rounds by a mere .001 at a time and see if they get better.

 

see if it’s one specific headstamp that fails

 

set crimp to no more than .378-.379 or so

 

[kornface13]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Things I would check:

make sure the sizing die is actually just kissing the shell plate.

try to shorten the rounds by a mere .001 at a time and see if they get better.

 

see if it’s one specific headstamp that fails

 

set crimp to no more than .378-.379 or so

 

I've never pulled a sized case and had it fail the plunk test.  Wouldn't this indicate that part of the cycle is definitely good to go?  

 

I've tried shortening, but it didn't work.  One thing I haven't tried is actually trimming the brass.  I didn't think straight walled cases grew in length so I don't think I've ever focused on that.  i can measure some of those tomorrow.  

 

Will check headstamps and look for patterns.  

 

I've measured crimp a thousand times and mine are actually smaller than factory loads.  I've played with every possible combination that my crimp die will do.  It seems to me like the Lee crimp die is removing the bell, but not doing anything about the part of the case just past the mouth.  Its definitely wider than factory ammo, so I assume this is where I'm getting caught up.  i'll get some actual measurements tomorrow.  Sometimes I feel like  I can actually see a bump which I assume is from the expander thing in the powder feed.  

Edited November 1, 2022 by kornface13

[xrayfk05]

I am not sure what you have or haven't tried when I read your post, so apolagies if you allready tried this.

If you size a case, bell it and then run it thru the crimping station skipping the seating die. Does it fit the case gauge or plunk test?

 

Don't bother measuring 9mm  brass, I have yet to find anyone who needed to do that.

[Sigarmsp226]

This may not be the issue but if the bullet you are loading has a greater width than .355”, it could be that your chamber does will not play well with a .356 - .358 bullet.

 

Just something else to consider…..

[ddc]

 

 

1. 

11 hours ago, kornface13 said:

I've been loading Eggleston munitions 147 gr for many years, and recently got a new CZ 75 PCR.  My reloads don't go into battery in this gun.  Well 1 out of 10 don't, but obviously that's enough to be no bueno.  The loads are fine in every other pistol I own, including other CZs.  Anyways, I've been trying to figure out whats wrong and slightly change my loading but I cannot get it working.  I think my Lee crimp die (which is completely bottomed out on my Dillon 650) isn't fully undoing the expansion from the Dillon powder feed expansion thing, but I'm struggling to prove it.  

 

A resized case plunks fine.  After expanding and crimping, it doesn't fully drop into my case gauge, but just barely touching it it does slide right in.  Then I have to gently push it back out rather than it free falling out like factory ammo does.  Is it common for the Lee crimp die to not work super well with the 650?  What die should I grab instead to try out?  The rest of the lee dies seem great so I'd really just want to replace the crimp die.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I'm completely out of ideas and things to try besides buying new stuff.  

 

As far as the Lee crimp die not playing well with a 650... I can almost guarantee you that is not the problem; the die doesn't know/care which press it is mounted on.

Something else is going on.

 

Also with respect to: "I think my Lee crimp die (which is completely bottomed out on my Dillon 650) isn't fully undoing the expansion from the Dillon powder feed expansion thing, but I'm struggling to prove it." 

1. what do your calipers tell you?

2. try coloring a case that doesn't insert with a magic marker and see if there is anywhere that the marking is affected.

 

Also:

I'm not familiar with Eggleston 147gr. Is that a jacketed or plated or coated bullet?

 

Is your Lee crimp die the Lee Factory Crimp die which also does some sizing?

 

And as @Sigarmsp226 points out perhaps your chamber is just a tad bit too tight for that particular load combination.

 

 

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

While everyone has posted some great info, I agree with @ddc and @Sigarmsp226 in that your CZ75 more than likely has a much tighter chamber than your other pistols; and it may require a much shorter OAL than your comfortable with when using the Eggleston bullets.

 

Before writing off that there's something wrong with your dies, I would follow Wobbly's excellent tutorial on checking to see what OAL the CZ75 prefers, and works with using those particular bullets!  Not out of the question to see certain bullets require OALs near 1.00" in order to work in some CZs.

 

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0

 

Also a great article on understanding Taper Crimp!

 

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=78873.0

 

HTHs

Edited November 1, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[practical_man]

I have owned a couple cz 75 variants over the years. All have had relatively short throats and tight chambers. Very picky about handloads with other than round nose projectiles. i ended up having one reamed to make the throat more gradual. That seemed to solve the problem. 

[DwightSchrute]

CZs are famous for short, tight chambers that make reloading somewhat of a challenge.  Unless you want malfunction repair practice while shooting, you’re going to have to run all your completed rounds through a case gauge.  Most will pass — especially if your bullets are .355” instead of .356”.  The ones that don’t can either be used in something with a bigger chamber like a SIG or a Glock (perish the thought!).  You could also try running the rounds that don’t initially pass the case gauge through a Lee Bulge Buster with a 9mm Makarov crimp die installed.  That will put most of the out-of-spec rounds into spec.  You’ll still be left with some rounds that just won’t make it, though, and you’ll find that some head stamps will work better than others for 9mm CZ reloading.

 

Number one tip:  run all your completed rounds through a case gauge.  At least it will eliminate your frustration at the range and help avoid match-destroying malfunctions during competition.

Edited November 9, 2022 by DwightSchrute

[Jschreiber]

Having great success with reading competition crimp die

[vegaspete61]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:18 AM, DwightSchrute said:

CZs are famous for short, tight chambers that make reloading somewhat of a challenge. 

Because CZ's have notoriously short/tight chambers I load all of my 9 minor ammo at 1.10. this makes them reliable in all of my 9mm handguns.

[vegaspete61]

Just now, vegaspete61 said:

Because CZ's have notoriously short/tight chambers I load all of my 9 minor ammo at 1.10. this makes them reliable in all of my 9mm handguns.

Oh yea....I use a Lee FCD.