Run & Gun With Weaver?

[SDlocal]

All,

I am shooting IDPA and using the isosceles stance. My accuacy was not bad and mobility is obviously good. One day while during practice (static line shooting) I switched to a weaver type stance (turned sideways with left hip pointing towards target) I am right handed.

Well my accuarcy up close and at distance increased dramaticaly...I mean a lot. So here is the question...is it possible or practicle to move and shoot this way? Any input on this would be apperciated. I would like to bring this improved accuracy to matches with out suffering to much in mobility.

Thx.

[diehli]

One day while during practice (static line shooting) I switched to a weaver type stance (turned sideways with left hip pointing towards target) I am right handed.

Well my accuarcy up close and at distance increased dramaticaly...I mean a lot. So here is the question...is it possible or practicle to move and shoot this way? Any input on this would be apperciated. I would like to bring this improved accuracy to matches with out suffering to much in mobility.

This would be what Brian refers to as a "Trick of the Day". Basically you've refocused because of the new stance, thereby improving your accuracy. There is no reason that the Weaver should be more accurate than the Iso stance or vice-versa.

For the shooting games that require movement (and shooting on the move) an Iso-derivative is, by far, the better stance. If you're accuracy improved when you switched stances it just shows you that you were lazy in some part of your stance. Work on getting your accuracy up with the Iso stance. I'd put money on it being your trigger control that is the main culprit.

[AlamoShooter]

Did you get good resutls with short split times? I have sean a weaver work good for plenty but the split times on finding the front sight or dot is slow. what the sights do will give you the best ansewr, normaly it sets your wrist up so that the sights track slower.

[ima45dv8]

So here is the question...is it possible or practicle to move and shoot this way?

Short answer -- If it was, everyone would be doing it.

It's like most things: Practice it enough and you can make it work. It just may entail more work.

Edited December 8, 2005 by ima45dv8

[Singlestack]

Short answer -- If it was, everyone would be doing it.

+1

[Carlos]

Try this: at next practice, switch back to Iso and instead of going for a 50/50 grip force, try gipping almost 100% with the LEFT or WEAK hand. It should almost feel as if you have passed the grip on the gun from one hand to the other (though the grip remains the same).

Did your accuracy improve?

The reality is: by going for 100% weak hand grip, you will generally get closer to the ideal 50/50 and accuracy/control should improve.

[XRe]

Accuracy, in the end, is not dependant upon your grip - but is dependant upon your ability to break the shot when the gun is lined up on the target. In other words, working your grip and stance as a means to improve accuracy is a losing bet, as it implies that you're probably not actually aiming the gun, calling shots, and breaking individual, controlled, aimed shots - but instead are maybe aiming the first one and then ripping off a double.

What grip and stance give you is the ability to break that second *AIMED* shot more quickly. Weaver tends to seem like it's better at controlling recoil - after all, you're dynamically using your muscles to hold the gun as close to in place as possible during recoil. I've watched a couple of folks employ weaver quite well at an A class level in IPSC. What you'll notice, though, is that you're forever returning the gun to target- you just have to learn to do it quickly.

The modified Iso "IPSC" grip/stance, when properly applied (ie, with grip pressure set up right, as Carlos suggests), allows the gun to cycle straight up and down, and it returns *itself* to the same spot each time, using much less effort on your part. Burkett's website has some drills describing how to evaluate your grip pressure, timing of the gun, etc. Those would be a great place to start your work.

Another point to look at - take a Weaver stance, and then, keeping your feet in place, rotate your body all the way to the left, and then to the right. Then do the same in an IPSC iso. Note that you can rotate a lot further to your strong side with the IPSC stance, and lose nothing on the weak side. It probably also feels more "free moving" (because there's a lot less tension in the stance). Movement towards the weak side will also be easier in Iso.

I've used "IPSC" above, because that's what I'm familiar with. My understanding is that the same stuff applies to IDPA - no reason why it shouldn't.

Someday, someone may come up with something even better, but, for now, it looks like a proper modified iso grip and stance is the best way to go...

[SDlocal]

Thanks everyone I will go back to Iso and work the suggestions I have gotten here and report back. This is a great forum............

[38supPat]

You need to get past stances with names.

There is no 'weaver' ...there is no 'iso'...there is only you.

The goal is to be able to reliably hit targets no matter what the stage demands of you. standing, moving low crouch, kneeling, pivoting 180 degrees, shooting up on an angle or downwards around a barricade, under a low port etc. no one 'stance' cover this. Learn to index on any target, anywhere and you will have the answer

Some light reading....

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=5230&hl=index

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=5231&hl=index

[Genghis]

I used to shoot Weaver. When I started in IPSC and USPSA I learned that it's impossible to swivel as far with the Weaver. In other words, your "turret" has a wider range of motion with the Iso.

Also, the Weaver depends on muscular tension, which means you aren't using natural point of aim properly.

[cr10x]

SDlocal:

I didn't see this mentioned, so please forgive me if it isn't an issue for you. I have see a dramatice change in some shooters when moving from Iso to Weaver and it has seemed to always be a vision issue.

By any chance are you cross eye dominate?

Weaver tends provide a position that allows some cross eye dominate (right hand / left eye) shooters to acquire the front sight easier and sometimes produces these results.

Its simply amazing what can happen with a really "in focus" front sights. Training and vision work will allow the use of Iso. if this is the case.

Cecil

[Viggen]

Try this: at next practice, switch back to Iso and instead of going for a 50/50 grip force, try gipping almost 100% with the LEFT or WEAK hand. It should almost feel as if you have passed the grip on the gun from one hand to the other (though the grip remains the same).

Did your accuracy improve?

The reality is: by going for 100% weak hand grip, you will generally get closer to the ideal 50/50 and accuracy/control should improve.

I am thinking that Carlos is spot on in what he is suggesting.

Generally, as a person moves toward what could be called an Iso the shooting improves. A lot of folks start with a Weaver type due to either reading magazines or whatever but when they actually shoot more or want to shoot better they tend to move toward a more balanced approach. Of course this all varies with personal preference.

[Jeff22]

The more squared off to the target you are, the better you can move and transition from target to target in most cases.

That being said, I shoot from the Chapman/modified Weaver stance -- gun side arm in pre-lock and slightly bladed to the target. I find that works best for me. I'm 6 ft 4 and have long arms, and am also cross-dominant (right handed w/left master eye) which might have something to do with it.

I trained recruits at the local regional police academy for 10 years. At the time, we trained a modified Weaver as the primary stance, with Isoceles as a secondary. We found that some people have a strong preference for one stance or the other, and for most it doesn't seem to make a big difference one way or the other.

In general, taller people with longer arms in relation to the length of their torso are more flexible and often find some variant of Weaver to be comfortable and to work well for them. Shooters with shorter arms, more musculature, and less flexibility will be more comfortable with some version of Isoceles. There is no hard and fast rule, and it may change for you over time. Shooters who have a back or shoulder or rotator cuff injury often find they have to change their shooting stance. Also, middle aged shooters may have to adjust their stance at the time they have to get bifocals.

Whatever you do, don't blade severely in relation to the target, like many Weaver Stance shooters used to do 30 years ago. Being sharply bladed compromises your ability to move and to transition from target to target. Experimentation will determine what works best for you.

[Paladin]

you know one of my promises for 2006 is to forget technique and just let the shooting happen and tell me its story... on some stages I may shoot iso, on others weaver, on others I don't know, I may walk between boxes, I may sprint between boxes.. all I will focus on is the shooting tense and seeing what I need to see..I am going to be doing a lot of work on my self-image...after all its only shooting (smile)!!