CZ Shadow 2 Recoil Buffer - Poll - How many run with vs without?

[ShredderTactical]

Thought it might be an interesting data point to know, in terms of number/percentage of owners, how many run with a recoil buffer installed versus how many have removed them.  I'm a new Shadow 2 owner and still trying to decide which way will give better performance.

 

[lll Otto lll]

Initially, the S2 had issues with cracked frames. The next year, the Black and Blue model was released which made minor changes to the frame. 
If the original S2 came with buffers, I don't remember...maybe they did.  I use them on my gen 2 S2's. I don't think it really makes a world of difference. 

[slavex]

S2's have always come with buffers, special edition Shadows also came with them, ones designed for competition shooting, the Shadowmates, Canadian, Australian Special etc. 

[ShredderTactical]

12 hours ago, slavex said:

S2's have always come with buffers, special edition Shadows also came with them, ones designed for competition shooting, the Shadowmates, Canadian, Australian Special etc. 

 

If you buy a used one...it might or might not have one installed or provided.

Had my third range training trip with my two month old S2 OR over the weekend.  I had removed the recoil buffer for this trip to see if I could feel any difference.  Holy cow...to me it seemed like a night and day difference!  Without the buffer the pistol felt much better, more controllable muzzle flip with better return on target and better target transitions, and this was with three different kinds of ammo; one was my match reloads (125gr Blue Bullets), one was 115gr Blazer Brass factory ammo, one was 150gr Federal Syntech.

Also, Cajun Gun Works (CGW) has some info on their website that I have quoted below and they are not a fan of using recoil buffers.  I know this is just one data point, but you have to sit up and take notice and give their opinion some weight with all the modified CZ's and parts they sell and all the happy customers that use their products worldwide.

The CGW website, in the Tutorial section under "How to Select the Proper Recoil Spring", states (sections highlighted for emphasis)...

Quote

Item #2:  the slide must travel its full stroke so the slide abuts the frame, just as it was designed to do.  There is no such thing as “slide or frame battering” and the installation of recoil spring buffers can prevent the slide from achieving its full stroke.  Recoil buffers can cause ejection problems by short cycling the slide, plus when the buffer breaks, as they all eventually do,  it will drop broken shards into your CZ’s lock work, rendering your pistol inoperative.  A full slide stroke allows the spent case rim to contact the ejector with full force, producing a strong, long-distance ejection, a critical function for a reliably running pistol.  Obviously, you can only determine the correct ejection outdoors, so if you only shoot indoors, you must find somewhere to do some testing.

 

[yigal]

1 hour ago, ShredderTactical said:

  Quote

Item #2:  the slide must travel its full stroke so the slide abuts the frame, just as it was designed to do.  There is no such thing as “slide or frame battering” and the installation of recoil spring buffers can prevent the slide from achieving its full stroke.  Recoil buffers can cause ejection problems by short cycling the slide, plus when the buffer breaks, as they all eventually do,  it will drop broken shards into your CZ’s lock work, rendering your pistol inoperative.  A full slide stroke allows the spent case rim to contact the ejector with full force, producing a strong, long-distance ejection, a critical function for a reliably running pistol.  Obviously, you can only determine the correct ejection outdoors, so if you only shoot indoors, you must find somewhere to do some testing.

 

i always like good  jokes.If you don't clean the gun and don't make sure to change the buffer
  in time and treat the gun like a block of metal found in the yard, so really this buffer is unnecessary.

This  gun in first edition  was supplied with a buffer .probably also designed to work with it.  about other type of  guns it's probably correct .

sh2 without buffer it's like stroked gun.

 

[ShredderTactical]

1 hour ago, yigal said:

i always like good  jokes.If you don't clean the gun and don't make sure to change the buffer
  in time and treat the gun like a block of metal found in the yard, so really this buffer is unnecessary.

This  gun in first edition  was supplied with a buffer .probably also designed to work with it.  about other type of  guns it's probably correct .

sh2 without buffer it's like stroked gun.

 

Nope...CGW states their opinion regarding the recoil buffers, as in don't use them since they are not needed and can cause problems, does indeed apply to the Shadow 2.  Below pic is from the CGW website if you look for Shadow 2 recoil springs.  Also, if you search on the CGW website for recoil buffers...guess what...looks like they don't sell any.  When we take a stock gun and tune it up for a particular competition (like USPSA for instance), we frequently remove and install parts different from what the manufacturer installed when they sold it for generic worldwide use.  It's what makes stock guns perform better for a particular competition or a particular user.  I don't make this stuff up...

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by ShredderTactical

[Artemas]

I have a 2019 era S2, it came with the buffer installed and I never took it out. No issues, gun with the original buffer is at 15k rounds, will it fail eventually? sure, might be why they include a pack of them. In the mean time it has outlasted several parts from an above mentioned company...

[YVK]

The number of times I found my buffers destroyed is probably embarrassing, since I am supposed to pay attention to these things. They never stopped my Shadows from running. I am even mildly curious how buffer's fragments can make it into lockwork, considering where the buffer is, where the lockwork is, and the number of barriers between them. But if absence of a buffer makes a night and day, up to target transitions, difference then who here is going to argue.

[Friedrich_der_Grosse]

I use a recoil buffer just because I think they're neat. I'll experiment with not using it next range session, but for additional information I use an 11lbs recoil spring with it, so take from that what you will. I won't say I recommend it or not recommend it, because I have zero idea what they do theoretically other than reduce the shock the frame takes from the slid reciprocating. But considering the factory recoil spring being combined with the super thick and strong steel frame, I really doubt it's a requirement at all. 

TLDR: Use them if you feel like having the extra reassurance, but make sure to please check your buffer every time you clean it (hopefully you do clean it often enough). 

[slavex]

Go to the factory in UB and talk to the engineers about the shockbuffs, strangely they'll disagree with CGW. But of course they are just shilling those $1.50 shockbuffs that last like 10k rounds. 

 

[ShredderTactical]

On 8/6/2022 at 5:37 AM, slavex said:

Go to the factory in UB and talk to the engineers about the shockbuffs, strangely they'll disagree with CGW. But of course they are just shilling those $1.50 shockbuffs that last like 10k rounds. 

 

I don't disagree about what the engineers might say.  However, the context of their discussion and opinion is likely not the same as what the majority of BE Forum members are thinking about.  They might give one answer when they are on the clock at the factory and another answer if you talk to them informally over a beer.

As was said above..."When we take a stock gun and tune it up for a particular competition (like USPSA for instance), we frequently remove and install parts different from what the manufacturer installed when they sold it for generic worldwide use.  It's what makes stock guns perform better for a particular competition or a particular user."

[yigal]

On 8/6/2022 at 12:37 PM, slavex said:

Go to the factory in UB and talk to the engineers about the shockbuffs, strangely they'll disagree with CGW. But of course they are just shilling those $1.50 shockbuffs that last like 10k rounds. 

 

I once read an article by someone I think from Norway, who had a TS 40 and he always used it with a buffer. He broke 2 or 3 barrels and rear sight but  the gun held  100k.
Ask here in the forum those who removed the buffer from TS whether their gun fired more than 40k and did not break.

[lll Otto lll]

On 8/6/2022 at 4:37 AM, slavex said:

Go to the factory in UB and talk to the engineers about the shockbuffs, strangely they'll disagree with CGW. But of course they are just shilling those $1.50 shockbuffs that last like 10k rounds. 

 

So they're okay with polymer guide rods in the SP-01?

[slavex]

16 hours ago, ShredderTactical said:

I don't disagree about what the engineers might say.  However, the context of their discussion and opinion is likely not the same as what the majority of BE Forum members are thinking about.  They might give one answer when they are on the clock at the factory and another answer if you talk to them informally over a beer.

As was said above..."When we take a stock gun and tune it up for a particular competition (like USPSA for instance), we frequently remove and install parts different from what the manufacturer installed when they sold it for generic worldwide use.  It's what makes stock guns perform better for a particular competition or a particular user."

well I wouldn't know anything about competition or going drinking with the guys after work in UB either, or the CZ team, or really anything I guess. 

[slavex]

11 hours ago, lll Otto lll said:

So they're okay with polymer guide rods in the SP-01?

Don't recall that discussion coming up, I never had any issues with my guns when I ran em, I went to a steel one mostly because I got it for free from Angus, and then ended up liking the little extra weight it added. 

[yigal]

15 hours ago, lll Otto lll said:

So they're okay with polymer guide rods in the SP-01?

yes. no problem.

It's creativity. The gun is a recycled Skoda and the plastic rod is her dashboard