2022 IPSC Pan American

[euxx]

...does stages 12 and 13 times look odd to anyone? As if they entered Nils results on the opposite stage.

 

[Blackstone45]

4 hours ago, euxx said:

It seems like he pushed for speed and maintained decent the accuracy to compensate for the point loss in Minor

Interesting analysis.

 

In those minor divisions where the times were faster, they're only competing against other minor shooters. I guess the theory is that he still shot conservatively in order to minimise his points loss against the major shooters.

 

Also interesting to see classic dominated by minor shooters, I always thought minor wasn't competitive in that division

[euxx]

1 hour ago, Blackstone45 said:

Interesting analysis.

 

In those minor divisions where the times were faster, they're only competing against other minor shooters. I guess the theory is that he still shot conservatively in order to minimise his points loss against the major shooters.

 

Normally I'd see Standard division to dominate over all Minor divisions or be closer than 8% drop.

I'm guessing either both Shane and Gorka aren't used to this style of stages or the rain fall during some of the match days had slowed them down.

 

1 hour ago, Blackstone45 said:

Also interesting to see classic dominated by minor shooters, I always thought minor wasn't competitive in that division

 

This was an IPSC match and many of them came from South America or Europe. And the stages likely were different for the usual USPSA SS/Major dominance. It is probably worth to compare stage HFs between this match and the Single Stack at USPSA Nationals:

 

PanAm Classic HFs (Min): 2.8 5.1 2.3 5.7 4.1 5.9 4.2 4.3 3.8 3.3 5.2 6.5 7.3 5.4 4.4 4.9 3.6 5.5 3.9 6.7 6.2 5.1 4.0 5.8
2022 Classic Nationals HFs (Maj): 5.7 6.0 8.1 6.9 6.7 7.5 6.6 5.3 5.7 7.7 10.3 7.7 8.1 8.2

Easy to see the latter stage HFs are quite higher. Likely because different style of stages.
 

[Blackstone45]

Ah ok so IPSC classic stage designs generally favour minor?

 

I've only ever shot IPSC and I do know the stage design philosophies are quite different between IPSC and USPSA

[euxx]

2 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:

Ah ok so IPSC classic stage designs generally favour minor?

If that was the case, we probably wouldn't haven't seen 12% jump in Open division... More likely just a different style of stages. Less hosing, more transitions, more movement, longer distance to targets, more athletic style of stages at PanAm and that is reflected in a generally lower HFs at this match.

[shred]

The stages were definitely biased towards a lower hit factor.  I wouldn't say it was significantly more "athletic" for the most part but mostly one or two targets per position, and much lower round counts than typical for USPSA.   That puts a big premium on points so even the Major shooters are trying for a very high Alpha count.  Still, winning Standard with Minor is quite an accomplishment.

 

[shred]

..another thing I thought of was there were few partial targets in the match, so besides the movers, probably 85+% of the targets had a full a-zone easily available, which is a plus for minor.

 

[euxx]

...they shot US IPSC Nationals on mostly the same or similar stages.

Shane won this time, but probably because of some issue Gaston had on stage 15, which cost him 25 points he could not catch up.



I did side by side comparison of the 2 runs (the "1" is for PanAm match runs). Not surprisingly, shooters improved their results.

  

[TonytheTiger]

Just watched some match footage. I noticed most stages started with an object in hand, is that a very common thing in IPSC?

[euxx]

Not really. But it was a thing for this match.

[shred]

More common in IPSC than USPSA, but this match was kind of over the top in that regard.

 

[TonytheTiger]

15 minutes ago, shred said:

More common in IPSC than USPSA, but this match was kind of over the top in that regard.

 

That was my impression, just thought maybe it was a Euro thing I was unfamiliar with.

[BritinUSA]

I know there used to be a lot of at it L4-L5 matches many years ago. I think stage designers did it just to mess with people’s heads.

[Blackstone45]

That stage where you start with your hands immersed in water was particularly devilish. Good luck to anyone who really relies on those liquid chalk products.

[shred]

Actually liquid chalk (Pro Grip anyway) works pretty well to repel water after you retract your hands if they aren't swimming around in there too long.  I didn't believe it until I saw some high speed video.

 

First time I heard of 'Hands-in-a-sink-full-of-water' as a start position at the Bisley World Shoot in 1993 and I've seen it occasionally since then.  Best used extremely sparingly IMO.

 

 

[BritinUSA]

1 hour ago, shred said:

First time I heard of 'Hands-in-a-sink-full-of-water' as a start position at the Bisley World Shoot in 1993 and I've seen it occasionally since then.  Best used extremely sparingly IMO.

That stage was set up like a restroom, I watched one guy pull his hands out of the sink, causally dry them on the towel and then grabbed his gun to shot the stage. 
 

Not my favorite stage, it didn’t help that it was cold that day either.

[shred]

On 9/28/2022 at 9:28 PM, BritinUSA said:

That stage was set up like a restroom, I watched one guy pull his hands out of the sink, causally dry them on the towel and then grabbed his gun to shot the stage. 
 

Not my favorite stage, it didn’t help that it was cold that day either.

Was that also the stage with targets in stalls that the ROs moved between shooters?  Interesting idea that wouldn't fly anymore, but people figured out how to game it.

[BritinUSA]

I think it was, there was one stall that just had no-shoots in it which they moved between shooters. But it was never the last stall.

 

If the first two stalls had targets then the 3rd had to have the no-shoots. The RO told us that we had to open all doors regardless, but it was still unfair as there was no need to look.

 

Two years later at the European Championships in Sweden they tried to have a surprise stage as part of the match, until the problems were pointed out by several competitors. The stage was pulled before the match even started.