Question for seasoned veterans of the P320 X5 Legion platform........

[HOGRIDER]

Wondering if any users/competitors have used the 1911 recoil springs; then switched back to the longer length Sig factory style springs?

 

Was doing some testing couple days ago (Ransom Rest) and was having numerous FTEs along with weak lock up/return to battery.  My MAX does have the KKM match barrel.

 

Discussed it with TSA, and he recommends using the longer Sig length springs.  Of course I have the 14# and 12# factory springs.  Also ordered some ISMI 13# and 12# long length springs this morning. 

 

I'm thinking my FTEs were due to a too heavy (1911 style) 14# spring; while I think the weak lock-up was due to the short OAL of the 1911 springs in general.  

 

Appreciate any feedback!

 

Thanks!

[echotango]

I used to use a 12# 1911 spring and was cracking the glass on the optics(3 legions, 3 Max's). Gun ran fine. Switched to a wolff 13# variable and like it much better and the optic issue went away. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by echotango

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, echotango said:

I used to use a 12# 1911 spring and was cracking the glass on the optics(3 legions, 3 Max's). Gun ran fine. Switched to a wolff 13# variable and like it much better and the optic issue went away. 

@echotangoThanks for your reply!!

 

Wondering if you have any of your pistols fitted with KKM or BarSto barrels; which usually provide tighter lockup?

 

[mrvip27]

4 hours ago, echotango said:

I used to use a 12# 1911 spring and was cracking the glass on the optics(3 legions, 3 Max's). Gun ran fine. Switched to a wolff 13# variable and like it much better and the optic issue went away. 

 

do you have the part number by chance?

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, mrvip27 said:

 

do you have the part number by chance?

https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wolff-19112011-Variable-Recoil-Springs-P3490.aspx

 

Or:

 

https://shop.1911parts.com/Wolff-Recoil-Calibration-Pak-Reduced-Power-Pak-RP-Variable-13115.htm

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by HOGRIDER

[HOGRIDER]

One thing I'd like to add to the discussion...............

 

Many questions have been asked by newer P320 X5 platform shooters about the "direction" the recoil spring should be in; especially when using the longer Sig style springs.  With the 1911/2011 springs we've always been used to putting the closed/painted end on the rear/breechface end of the guide rod.

 

After a very informative conversation with IMSI tech support, it seems that "IF" we have/use a constant diameter style guide rod:

https://shop.springerprecision.com/sig-p320-x5-tungsten-guide-rod-1911-springs-share/

 

Then the longer Sig style factory or ISMI/Springer style springs can actually be used with either end towards the rear.  Sig does ship there P320X5 pistols, AFAIK, with the open end of the recoil spring towards the rear.

 

If the guide rod your using has the "step" just in front of the guide rod "head" such as this one:

https://shop.springerprecision.com/copy-of-sig-p320-tungsten-guide-rod-1911-springs/

 

Then ISMI definitely recommends and notes on their packaging the recoil spring should be installed with the closed end to the rear towards the breechface!

 

HTHs

 

 

 

 

[ddc]

How many rounds do you have through the Max/KKM combo?

[HOGRIDER]

3 hours ago, ddc said:

How many rounds do you have through the Max/KKM combo?

@ddcI've got right at 200 rounds so far..............sad, but to be honest my recovery from the procedure is taking a bit longer than I expected.  Few days after, I went to the range to check some rounds across the chrono.  With the extreme heat E. KY has been experiencing, I knew quickly I was pushing myself way too soon.  Luckily I got everything torn down, loaded up, and back in the cool of my GMC.  A bit unsettling to be at the range by yourself with no cell service.............

 

But I did get some good velocity numbers.........

 

Coupe of weeks ago, I loaded some more slightly reduced power loads to run across the Ransom Rest, and after getting several FTEs and weak lockup, I found out I had left my sample 1911 and Sig factory springs home.  Looking at the target I was seeing cloverleafs, 2 touching an 1&1/2" away, then random flyers 2-3" away.  IMHO, the 14# 1911 spring was weak in lockup and too strong for my reduced power reloads.  Was not a successful test session........

 

Sorry for the long-winded reply, but I am much improved and hope to be back at the Ransom Rest next week for some final testing.  I do feel the KKM is going to produce some excellent results once I find the right combo!   

 

Hope you are doing well!  

 

[mrvip27]

6 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wolff-19112011-Variable-Recoil-Springs-P3490.aspx

 

Or:

 

https://shop.1911parts.com/Wolff-Recoil-Calibration-Pak-Reduced-Power-Pak-RP-Variable-13115.htm

 

 

awesome thanks!

[echotango]

20 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

@echotangoThanks for your reply!!

 

Wondering if you have any of your pistols fitted with KKM or BarSto barrels; which usually provide tighter lockup?

 

All stock barrels. 

I install all my springs open end fwd. The open end of the spring sort of starts to go over the rear of the springer tungsten gr and don't want to take any chances of it jamming. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by echotango

[HOGRIDER]

10 minutes ago, echotango said:

All stock barrels. 

I install all my springs open end fwd. The open end of the spring sort of starts to go over the rear of the springer tungsten gr and don't want to take any chances of it jamming. 

@echotango

Good point!  I do the same with mine as ISMI states the springs will "grow" during compression.

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

[RobE1010]

I've used both the factory Sig 12# & 14# recoil springs as well as both standard and variable 1911 springs in my Legions. Shot both factory and reloaded ammo ranging from 115gr to 150gr and no problems for me as of yet. Both factory and aftermarket barrels used. 

[mrvip27]

Now I am getting myself confused...

Open end towards muzzle? Closed sitting on guide rod face (breech)?

[HOGRIDER]

4 hours ago, mrvip27 said:

Now I am getting myself confused...

Open end towards muzzle? Closed sitting on guide rod face (breech)?

@mrvip27Yes, I think that is the consensus even though the Sig springs are normally installed with the "open" end towards the rear/breech face, ISMI recommends on their packaging to install with the "closed end towards the rear of the gun", which is as you noted above the "breech face end".

 

FWIW, I got the opportunity to shoot a plate rack with some friends today; and the Max never experienced a hiccup shooting 124 AA Elite, 124 Federal Syntech, or my 147g Match CZ reloads!  This is with a new ISMI 12# Sig length spring installed with the closed end towards the breech face/rear of the guide rod.

 

HTHs

 

 

PS:  Pic is from back of ISMI packaging............

Edited July 23, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[mrvip27]

3 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

@mrvip27Yes, I think that is the consensus even though the Sig springs are normally installed with the "open" end towards the rear/breech face, ISMI recommends on their packaging to install with the "closed end towards the rear of the gun", which is as you noted above the "breech face end".

 

FWIW, I got the opportunity to shoot a plate rack with some friends today; and the Max never experienced a hiccup shooting 124 AA Elite, 124 Federal Syntech, or my 147g Match CZ reloads!  This is with a new ISMI 12# Sig length spring installed with the closed end towards the breech face/rear of the guide rod.

 

HTHs

 

 

PS:  Pic is from back of ISMI packaging............

 

Appreciate the clarification.

[USP45]

Something else to check if you are noticing sluggish lock up, especially when manipulating the slide by hand. Take the slide off and look under it in line with where the ejector would be.

 

If you do some hard(er) dry fire reload practice it is easy to tweak the ejector up so that it rubs on bottom of slide. If rubbing you will see line where the finish has been removed from the ejector touching the slide, or where it is at least worn. If you have a bright silver line under the slide take a sharpie, color the line, reassemble and manipulate slide maybe 20 times. Pull slide back off and see if sharpie has rubbed off again... if so your ejector is contacting the slide.

 

Easy fix is to take an armorers hammer (use the plastic tipped side) and gently tap on the top of the ejector to push it back down some, but be gentle. When you reassemble, and assuming it was rubbing, you will notice a DEFINITE difference in how easily it locks up again. I found all of this out the hard way.

Edited August 2, 2022 by USP45

[Blue Jacket]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:11 PM, USP45 said:

Something else to check if you are noticing sluggish lock up, especially when manipulating the slide by hand. Take the slide off and look under it in line with where the ejector would be.

 

If you do some hard(er) dry fire reload practice it is easy to tweak the ejector up so that it rubs on bottom of slide. If rubbing you will see line where the finish has been removed from the ejector touching the slide, or where it is at least worn. If you have a bright silver line under the slide take a sharpie, color the line, reassemble and manipulate slide maybe 20 times. Pull slide back off and see if sharpie has rubbed off again... if so your ejector is contacting the slide.

 

Easy fix is to take an armorers hammer (use the plastic tipped side) and gently tap on the top of the ejector to push it back down some, but be gentle. When you reassemble, and assuming it was rubbing, you will notice a DEFINITE difference in how easily it locks up again. I found all of this out the hard way.

Had the exact same issue with my X5