Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Got a new-to-me TSO in 40. Put the first rounds through it today, only had supervel RNFP on hand, 180gr. They're loaded to about 1.132 give or take. Had maybe about 7-10 rounds out of 100 get jammed on the feed ramp. A little pull back on the slide a couple mm and it would feed fine. Im wondering if perhaps the gun just didnt like the ammo? I intend on loading a recipe of sport pistol at 1.160, and I got home and prepped up about 12 dummy rounds at that OAL, with the blue bullets 180gr RNFP, and they all cycled through it just fine through every mag. The shock buffer was pretty beat up when I pulled it out, I put a new one in there but Im not sure if the gun needs them, or if it could cause feeding issues to use? I have a few different recoil spring weights available, and I believe the 13lb is in there, but I do have a couple lighter and couple heavier. 3 mags of stock TSO .40 magazine, and 3 more mags with CZ custom base pads with grahams 13 coil spring and follower (or maybe its 14 not sure which they make). Seems like it did would get caught up in any of the mags randomly. Gun is generally clean and tightly fitting otherwise, its seen some good use before me but otherwise appears relatively tidy. Could it be in need of a stronger extractor spring? I guess Im just spitballing to get a general conversation going, first time firing the gun today and wanted to go back to the range with a few ideas in my back pocket tomorrow or thurs. Guess Ill have confirmation for sure if the gun doesnt like the blue bullets recipe and behaves the same way. Sometimes a gun is just picky and hates a certain profile/OAL i guess. Another thought that I can confirm next range trip....I wonder if since this is my first time owning a gun with a thumb rest that maybe Im contacting the slide too much? It does seem a tad thin. Perhaps I could be putting the brakes on the slide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 supervel RNFP, did you plunk test this ammo.. Cz are inherently throated for short ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Yes the gun is reemed. so the supervel is 1.135, and the load i plunked is even longer at 1.16, plunked just fine. could it be the recoil spring is too light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 13# recoil spring is pretty standard. You might be riding the slide with that thumb rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Furrly said: 13# recoil spring is pretty standard. You might be riding the slide with that thumb rest? I'm suspecting this haha. It is a little thin for my hand size so I may reluctantly have to ditch it. Or just find a wider one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Check obvious stuff (clean, properly lubed) and maybe capture some video from the left side of the gun while shooting? Also maybe testfire without the shokbuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scroadkill Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 imo use stock followers see if that works.. and ditch shockbuffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, scroadkill said: imo use stock followers see if that works.. and ditch shockbuffs I also have three stock mags/followers, and did get the issue a time or two on those too so I'm suspecting it would "not" be mag dependent. But I did not think to ditch the buffer when I was at the range but will do that next time. Cooking up a few loads today to test, so I'll have 180gr blues loaded past Saami (1.160), 200gr blues loaded shorter like 1.115, and then 180gr supervel at a out 1.135 oal. I'll test all on both followers, and ditch the buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 When I bought my TS CZC told me not to use the shock buffers. I never had an issue. I never broke a slide stop. I was also told by the bunch of TS shooters at the club that loading to 1.126" OAL with any bullet shape would feed 100%. They were right. Using a shock buff shortens the stroke. There is not enough dwell time to allow the top round to fully rise. It is being stripped early. That is why it hits the feed ramp. Removing the buff will help that. Loading shorter will also help a lot. You get zero benefit from loading long for a TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, zzt said: When I bought my TS CZC told me not to use the shock buffers. I never had an issue. I never broke a slide stop. I was also told by the bunch of TS shooters at the club that loading to 1.126" OAL with any bullet shape would feed 100%. They were right. Using a shock buff shortens the stroke. There is not enough dwell time to allow the top round to fully rise. It is being stripped early. That is why it hits the feed ramp. Removing the buff will help that. Loading shorter will also help a lot. You get zero benefit from loading long for a TS. Thanks. Yea the only real reason I was inclined to try the 1.16 data for sport pistol was because it was on the alliant load data. I intend to whip up a shorter 180gr load, just have to be more exploratory with testing. The 200gr is a bit stubbier and flatter than the 180gr so maybe that one could feed well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Guitarmageddon said: The 200gr is a bit stubbier and flatter than the 180gr so maybe that one could feed well. I found the 200s to be too slow. It felt like I could take a nap before the sights returned. I shot 180s for most of my Limited career, only because that was the conventional wisdom. I experimented with 155s and 165s. The gun loved the 165s and my splits were faster. Give them a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, zzt said: I found the 200s to be too slow. It felt like I could take a nap before the sights returned. I shot 180s for most of my Limited career, only because that was the conventional wisdom. I experimented with 155s and 165s. The gun loved the 165s and my splits were faster. Give them a try. Good to know! I came from the 9mm school where heavies are "better" and really loved the 147gr, so when I bought a spread of stuff to try for .40 I got some on the heavier end too. Only 250 of the 200gr blues though, so no big loss if the gun isn't a fan. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) Small update, just returned from the range testing some blue bullets/sport pistol loads. I tested: 180gr Blues, at 1.160 (book data) , settling at 4.6gr being good for making PF 200gr blues, loaded short to 1.110, loads were too weak to make PF but I kind of liked the feel. Will test some more .1-.3gr more powder i think tomorrow. But regarding my feeding, everything went off without a hitch. Odd. What I changed before going out to the range: Took out the shock buffer Took off the thumb rest Maybe it was one/both of those things contributing to the feeding. Knock on wood it went through 150 rounds in all different mags just fine. Im debating on trying other gas pedals or just sticking some grip tape in that area and seeing how I feel. Edited January 20, 2022 by Guitarmageddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 If it were me, I'd put the thumb rest back on now and see if the feeding issues come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reds_Dot Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 So, I just went through something similar (not exactly the same) with my TSO .40. Here is what I figured out: 1) Ditch the shock buffers. I shredded one after like 100 rounds and I asked another guy I know shooting a TS in .40. He said he learned the hard way one got shredded then got wedged in the recoil spring and locked the gun up. 2) I swapped to a DPM recoil system it seems to be notable smoother than the OE spring/guide-rod. That is your call. YMMV. 3) My chamber is not throated and I am running a 1.125" OAL with 180gr. They run like a champ. 4) I used the CZC basepads and they are great. If you are using the springs and followers from CZC dump them. They will cause the rounds to nose-dive into the feed-ramp. You can run either the Grams 11 coil springs and followers or you can actually use the OE springs and followers with you CZC basepads. I was surprised to see the mags load to 20 rounds easily and cycle well with the OE springs and followers. I hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 24 minutes ago, Reds_Dot said: So, I just went through something similar (not exactly the same) with my TSO .40. Here is what I figured out: 1) Ditch the shock buffers. I shredded one after like 100 rounds and I asked another guy I know shooting a TS in .40. He said he learned the hard way one got shredded then got wedged in the recoil spring and locked the gun up. 2) I swapped to a DPM recoil system it seems to be notable smoother than the OE spring/guide-rod. That is your call. YMMV. 3) My chamber is not throated and I am running a 1.125" OAL with 180gr. They run like a champ. 4) I used the CZC basepads and they are great. If you are using the springs and followers from CZC dump them. They will cause the rounds to nose-dive into the feed-ramp. You can run either the Grams 11 coil springs and followers or you can actually use the OE springs and followers with you CZC basepads. I was surprised to see the mags load to 20 rounds easily and cycle well with the OE springs and followers. I hope that helps. Ok good to know. I had been eyeing the DPM system today as a matter of fact. I was curious though, would it contribute to short stroking ever so slightly just like the shock buffer makes? Have you had any feeding issues with it? I have CZC basepads with I believe grams follows/springs in the extended mags. I havent loaded the 180s shorter yet, just to that above- spec recipe at 1.160. I will have to try them shorter and see how it changes, but will have to experiment with the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Reds_Dot said: If you are using the springs and followers from CZC dump them. The CZC followers are thinner than stock. You can fit 21 reloadable in the mag when used with the CZC spring. The CZC spring is weaker than stock and will eventually cause a problem. When it weakens it will not push the last round up so it can be stripped. I used the stock springs and followers with the CZC base pad. It took some experimentation, because they didn't work in all the mags. A little trial and error and swapping things around sorted that out They all ran 100% after that. Grams springs are not required. I'm still running the original stock springs and followers. I also went with a full length guide rod. It was smoother and caused no problems. Edited January 20, 2022 by zzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, zzt said: The CZC followers are thinner than stock. You can fit 21 reloadable in the mag when used with the CZC spring. The CZC spring is weaker than stock and will eventually cause a problem. When it weakens it will not push the last round up so it can be stripped. I used the stock springs and followers with the CZC base pad. It took some experimentation, because they didn't work in all the mags. A little trial and error and swapping things around sorted that out They all ran 100% after that. Grams springs are not required. I'm still running the original stock springs and followers. I also went with a full length guide rod. It was smoother and caused no problems. What guide rod did you go with? Or is that what comes with DPM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reds_Dot Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 48 minutes ago, Guitarmageddon said: Ok good to know. I had been eyeing the DPM system today as a matter of fact. I was curious though, would it contribute to short stroking ever so slightly just like the shock buffer makes? Have you had any feeding issues with it? None. I use the heaviest spring that comes in the kit and ejects well and cycles quickly with my 173pf 180gr rounds. I can keep pairs in the a-zone of an IPSC target at 10 yards with 0.15s splits easily. I like it better than the OE fixed rate spring and solid guide-rod but I am also the same guy who can split 0.11s out of a stock Gen5 Glock so progressive springs are kinda my jam. I don't think there is anything wrong with the OE guide-rod and spring. I just prefer the DPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Reds_Dot said: None. I use the heaviest spring that comes in the kit and ejects well and cycles quickly with my 173pf 180gr rounds. I can keep pairs in the a-zone of an IPSC target at 10 yards with 0.15s splits easily. I like it better than the OE fixed rate spring and solid guide-rod but I am also the same guy who can split 0.11s out of a stock Gen5 Glock so progressive springs are kinda my jam. I don't think there is anything wrong with the OE guide-rod and spring. I just prefer the DPM. Is this the one you used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reds_Dot Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Guitarmageddon said: Is this the one you used? Nothing posted but here is the one I got: https://www.dpmsystems.com/cz-75-ts-tactical-sport-9mm-40sw/ Again, I am not a salesman for DPM and I don't think this will make any real difference to how the gun feeds the rounds. I just like how it makes the recoil impulse feel. This isn't a "must have" to make the gun cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 Oh I meant to post this one. So it appears you selected a different than what I would have thought to use.CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow/Shadow Line-Tactical-Phantom & TS Orange – DPM Systems Technologies Ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reds_Dot Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Guitarmageddon said: Oh I meant to post this one. So it appears you selected a different than what I would have thought to use.CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow/Shadow Line-Tactical-Phantom & TS Orange – DPM Systems Technologies Ltd Yeah, that one will work too. I wanted the shorter/lighter one to push the weight balance back towards the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Guitarmageddon said: What guide rod did you go with? Or is that what comes with DPM? I bought it from CZC. Don't know the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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