Ways to lighten a 1911 trigger pull?

[Obvious]

Before I admit defeat and go to a proper smith I’d like to get some ideas from other folks here. I’m using a double stack 1911 from RIA in .40 and I’ve finally made some upgrades. I put in a lightened hammer, sear, and disconnector from extreme engineering as well as a 17lb main spring. Very shortly I’ll be adding an extended firing pin as well. Even after these changes my trigger pull is around 4.5lbs, while a buddy running the same ignition kit in his 2011 has a sub 2lb trigger. His take up is extremely light and he recommended tweaking my sear spring to lighten the trigger pull some more since my take up requires a good bit of force. I may have dropped a few ounces but nothing very noticeable, it was either too much tension and the trigger was still meh or too little and there was hammer follow. The extreme engineering sear has two obvious angles cut into it and I don’t want to mess with those, and I’ve already tried my best to deburr/polish the other parts. Just wanted to see if there were any other options before shelling out and letting a smith see if they can get it any lighter. 

[johnmyster]

You should be able to get sub 3# break with a 23# mainspring and good components.  The 17# MS is a cheat if done only to reduce trigger pull, and may not get you where you need to be with other aspects of the gun (ignition, controlling slide velocity of 40 cal, etc).  What you seek requires more than simply swapping parts.  This isn't an M&P and an apex kit.

 

Number one overlooked item, does the trigger slide smoothly in the frame.  If not, you've got some polishing work and perhaps even reshaping the trigger bow ahead of you.  (If trigger doesn't move freely, you have to overcome that on the trigger pull and then you need the seer spring set stiff enough to overcome it on the return.  Both of these are bad for light/crisp triggers.)  After that, does the disconnector move smoothly against the trigger bow?  Are the surfaces of the disconnector smooth where it contacts trigger, sear, and sear spring?  Is the angled surface on the top of the middle leaf smooth?  Are the sides of the sear smooth and the frame walls where the sear rotates within the frame?  Does everything have a drop of oil on it?  If all this is good and your hammer hooks / sear nose are as they should be, you've got some additional tweaking of the sear spring to do.  

 

The middle leaf sets the "first stage" or take up.  The left leaf adds to this the additional force needed to break the trigger (beyond what is provided by sear/hammer interface angle and friction.)  Proceed carefully.  Most smiths have a takeup weight that they shoot for, and then the break after that.  (As a shooter I don't mind having a little more takeup weight.  Most dan wesson factory triggers seem to be set that way.  Light total break but somewhat intentional on the takeup.)

 

Guns with light triggers will be prone to hammer follow via trigger bounce.  No dropping the slide on an empty chamber.  No Neanderthal slide racking.  If you haven't done this before, do vet the gun to verify you don't get hammer follow during normal cycling or with the trigger pinned.  This usually means you have other problems.  Since you've messed with the hammer and sear, obviously make sure the gun still passes safety check (thumb safety does what it should) and that you don't have hammer follow when you disengage safety after a firm trigger press.  If so, it's time to refit the safety.

 

If some hack has been inside the gun before you, understand you may have some corrective work to do.

Edited January 10, 2022 by johnmyster

[Obvious]

16 minutes ago, johnmyster said:

You should be able to get sub 3# break with a 23# mainspring and good components.  The 17# MS is a cheat if done only to reduce trigger pull, and may not get you where you need to be with other aspects of the gun (ignition, controlling slide velocity of 40 cal, etc).  What you seek requires more than simply swapping parts.  This isn't an M&P and an apex kit.

 

Number one overlooked item, does the trigger slide smoothly in the frame.  If not, you've got some polishing work and perhaps even reshaping the trigger bow ahead of you.  (If trigger doesn't move freely, you have to overcome that on the trigger pull and then you need the seer spring set stiff enough to overcome it on the return.  Both of these are bad for light/crisp triggers.)  After that, does the disconnector move smoothly against the trigger bow?  Are the surfaces of the disconnector smooth where it contacts trigger, sear, and sear spring?  Is the angled surface on the top of the middle leaf smooth?  Are the sides of the sear smooth and the frame walls where the sear rotates within the frame?  Does everything have a drop of oil on it?  If all this is good and your hammer hooks / sear nose are as they should be, you've got some additional tweaking of the sear spring to do.  

 

The middle leaf sets the "first stage" or take up.  The left leaf adds to this the additional force needed to break the trigger (beyond what is provided by sear/hammer interface angle and friction.)  Proceed carefully.  Most smiths have a takeup weight that they shoot for, and then the break after that.  (As a shooter I don't mind having a little more takeup weight.  Most dan wesson factory triggers seem to be set that way.  Light total break but somewhat intentional on the takeup.)

 

Guns with light triggers will be prone to hammer follow via trigger bounce.  No dropping the slide on an empty chamber.  No Neanderthal slide racking.  If you haven't done this before, do vet the gun to verify you don't get hammer follow during normal cycling or with the trigger pinned.  This usually means you have other problems.  Since you've messed with the hammer and sear, obviously make sure the gun still passes safety check (thumb safety does what it should) and that you don't have hammer follow when you disengage safety after a firm trigger press.  If so, it's time to refit the safety.

 

If some hack has been inside the gun before you, understand you may have some corrective work to do.

Sadly I would say a hack has been inside the gun but didn’t mess with the ignition system. I had a smith cerakote it, and he decided that cerakoting EVERY internal component was the best idea. I’ve often wondered what kind of impact this had on my trigger. 
 

https://imgur.com/a/KAa4sg4

 

I can’t do much about the cerakote inside the trigger track but if it’s harmful I can sand off the cerakote on the trigger bow  and polish it with flitz. I don’t believe the trigger binds inside the gun, I can drop it in and out freely with no problem. I have some lapping films I could run over the sear/disco where they mate to polish it up a tad and move smoother, along with the trigger bow. That’s what I used to take off all the initial hard edges. Sear is quite smooth and flat already, the frame walls are also covered in cerakote so can’t report back on that. 

[Steve in Allentown PA]

4 hours ago, johnmyster said:

After that, does the disconnector move smoothly against the trigger bow?  Are the surfaces of the disconnector smooth where it contacts trigger, sear, and sear spring?

 

I thought I'd add an image showing the surfaces of the disconnector that need to be addressed for smooth operation.  There are a couple of surfaces not specifically identified in the image.  One is the very tip of the disconnector that bears against the slide.  The other is the interior surfaces of the square hole through which the retaining pin passes.  This is an EGW ball head disconnector.  The round area immediately below the slide contact surfaces can be polished as well as the frame hole through which the extractor passes.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Steve in Allentown PA

[Obvious]

23 minutes ago, Steve in Allentown PA said:

 

I thought I'd add an image showing the surfaces of the disconnector that need to be addressed for smooth operation.  There are a couple of surfaces not specifically identified in the image.  One is the very tip of the disconnector that bears against the slide.  The other is the interior surfaces of the square hole through which the retaining pin passes.  This is an EGW ball head disconnector.  The round area immediately below the slide contact surfaces can be polished as well as the frame hole through which the extractor passes.

 

Awesome visual! I already got most of the spots but it gives me a few more I can focus on

[ltdmstr]

First thing to do is polish all contact surfaces on the frame and all the parts.  Second is to cut the hammer and sear angles.  If you don't know how to do that, or don't have the tools, you can buy drop-in parts  Although results with drop-in parts is almost never optimal, it's usually pretty good.  Next thing is the springs.  Many like a 17 lb mainspring, as it's an easy way to lighten the pull a bit, but that tends to give you a mushy trigger and sometimes unreliable ignition.  You'll get a crisper break plus better feel, durability and reliability with a properly prepped hammer and sear and 19 lb (or heavier) mainspring.  You'll also need to tune the sear spring, which is pretty straightforward.  Brownells web site has a good write-up on that and I'm sure you can find it on this forum with the search function.  You should also want to adjust the overtravel on the trigger if it has that feature.  Be sure to test with one or two rounds after you make adjustments.

[CHA-LEE]

Trigger parts are rarely "Drop In" on a 1911/2011 pistol. If you can't figure out how to do this on your own, then get it to a competent gunsmith to do it for you. Its all fun and games until you end up with a bullet in your leg because you don't know how to setup a trigger job properly.

[shred]

I believe that Brazos had an article in Front Sight about doing triggers and bending the sear spring in a Front Sight not more than a couple years ago.

 

2nd that these things (except maybe the modular thing) aren't drop-in.  Brian talks about ruining a bunch of hammers and sears learning to do really good trigger jobs.

 

 

[Obvious]

1 hour ago, ltdmstr said:

First thing to do is polish all contact surfaces on the frame and all the parts.  Second is to cut the hammer and sear angles.  If you don't know how to do that, or don't have the tools, you can buy drop-in parts  Although results with drop-in parts is almost never optimal, it's usually pretty good.  Next thing is the springs.  Many like a 17 lb mainspring, as it's an easy way to lighten the pull a bit, but that tends to give you a mushy trigger and sometimes unreliable ignition.  You'll get a crisper break plus better feel, durability and reliability with a properly prepped hammer and sear and 19 lb (or heavier) mainspring.  You'll also need to tune the sear spring, which is pretty straightforward.  Brownells web site has a good write-up on that and I'm sure you can find it on this forum with the search function.  You should also want to adjust the overtravel on the trigger if it has that feature.  Be sure to test with one or two rounds after you make adjustments.

This was actually huge. I decided to get out the flitz and dremel and very carefully went over the disconnector again, the sides of the sear, and the face of the spring and back of the trigger bow (it was previously cerakoted) and really polished it up and it made a huge difference! Probably dropped a pound and a half after tweaking the sear spring 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Obvious

[ima45dv8]

Closed in favor of the other thread you started.

Please do not cross-post the same topic in different sub-forums. It makes a mess.