Finding The Dot

[Genghis]

I just got my first Open gun about a week and a half ago. I'm a C-Class Limited shooter, unclassified in Open.

On the draw I sometimes have trouble finding the dot. Once I master this I'll be ready to debut in Open. But I want to get consistent on this first.

I know the secret is taking the same hold every time, so I naturally have the gun indexed properly whenever I assume the shooting position. I've practiced this by drawing, finding the dot, then dry firing. I've also been to the range a few times. My best draw times are getting closer to my best times with the Limited guns.

Recently I started concentrating on keeping the windage correct (watching the gun and keeping the muzzle pointed straight ahead rather than left or right) as the gun comes up. I've tried to pull the gun to my chest initially, then push it out from my body as I try to acquire the dot. If I keep it centered, as the muzzle drops the dot comes up from the bottom of the glass.

I know drawing and dry firing will help, as will range practice. Any other suggestions?

[vincent]

Do everything at half speed so you can make adjustments and recognize those adjustments.

Practice "reverse draws" - start with the gun out with dot centered and work your way back through the draw stroke to the holster.

Isolate the part of the draw that is causing trouble, usually the extension to the final hold, and repeat this part more. No need to practice the other steps that are the same as your limited draw.

I'm doing the same thing right now - good luck.

[benos]

What kind of scope do you have? Until you have quite bit of experience, finding the dot consistently is difficult with the C-more, because there's little to reference off of. But a trick I learned, when first going to scopes, was to first look at the top of the gun including the physical shape of the scope itself, then find the dot. To get a feel for this, in your index position, look at the dot, then shift your focus "out" a bit, so instead of focusing on the dot you are looking at the general outline of the top of the gun. Notice the visual relationship of one part of the scope to another part, or notice the relationship of the scope to the top of the slide. Experiment until you find the best way for you to remember "how the top of the gun looks" when the dot is on the target. Now you have figured out a way to "remember what the top of the gun looks like" in a very similar way as you do when you line up a front and rear sight. Now, practice drawing by first looking for this remembered physical relationship, and as soon as you see that you'll also see the dot.

I hope that make sense as it's kind of hard to explain, and, I'm hungry.

be

[RacerX1166]

Wow, I was wondering about this same issue as I just stepped into my first open gun a week ago myself. Brian's technique described above somewhat dawned on me in a vacuum and I was wondering if it made sense or not - find the dot first or set the gun and then find the dot. Which is faster...

Sounds like I'm on the right track and will have to give it a try as my draw times have increased quite a bit since I went Open (a whole week!).

Babbling now and need some lunch myself.

[benos]

And I should have added that what the above technique is really doing is enhancing the bodily memory of the correct position. After some experience, you won't need to rely on it any longer: The gun comes up - the dot is there.

be

[XRe]

I'll throw a couple of cents in here. There's something to be said for doing some of your dry fire *very* slowly - and break it down into discrete steps - and work it forwards and backwards, as vincent suggests. For a time, slower than half speed - I mean crawling. Do it at the fastest speed you can execute and see the dot *perfectly* - which might feel really slow to start with. As Brian says, you're trying to remember how it *feels* to have the body lined up correctly so that you've got the dot in the lens every time. Put another way, you're establishing your index with that gun. Grip and stance consistency are key, and the best way to achieve it is, as you guessed, lots and lots of dry fire practice.

Working an exagerrated "J draw", as you describe, also helped me start to find the dot more quickly. As I got more consistent, the bend in the J flattened out a little more, and my draw became more direct, but still felt like an "up then out" motion.

That said - if you get into trouble with a C-More in a stage, and can't seem to find the dot, one trick that's worked well for me in the past is to look down at the scope, and align the top of the dot module with the bottom center of the lens. Usually, the dot will then be visible in the lens somewhere, then center it on the target and shoot.

[benos]

If you get into trouble with a C-More in a stage, and can't seem to find the dot, one trick that's worked well for me in the past is to look down at the scope, and align the top of the dot module with the bottom center of the lens. Usually, the dot will then be visible in the lens somewhere, then center it on the target and shoot.

+1

be

[Genghis]

BE's suggestion of seeing how the top of the gun looks makes perfect sense. When I was in pilot training some of the instructors taught us to set angles for climbs, dives, and banks based on how the nose of the plane looked in relation to the horizon.

The gun feels like it's pointing up when it's indexed properly. I don't know if that's because this is an SV/STI and I've been shooting my Glock a lot in Limited, or because I'm not used to the dot. I know the gun is zeroed because I put 12 holes in the head part of the target on Sunday from 26 paces (and I had 17 rounds left in the gun!).

The sight is a C-More. My Dad has an older Open gun with a tubular dot scope, and it's easier to find that dot in a way.

I've tried drawing in slow motion and it helps.

Thanks a bunch for the advice, guys. Brian's forum is like wishing you could buy a book that covered a certain specific subject, then checking your computer and finding a complete chapter that answers your exact question. Ask and you shall receive!

[AikiDale]

I am finding I hide the dot with my left, supporting, hand. After a quick up-down search for the dot it comes sliding in from the left as soon as I relax the left hand. I discovered this after lining up the dot module with the bottom of the sight as Xre suggests and still not having a dot. Must go practice again, and again, and....

[Loves2Shoot]

+2 find the back knob one a c-more and you should be fine.

[GuildSF4]

Don't know if this will help or not, when using a C-more I always found the dot on the draw by doing an up, then out style draw (AKA Matt Mclearn), and when I lost the dot, pull the gun in and punch it back out (it was always quicker than searching for it for me).

[wide45]

I am finding I hide the dot with my left, supporting, hand. After a quick up-down search for the dot it comes sliding in from the left as soon as I relax the left hand.

Yer on the right track

[Dream]

Dry fire, Dry fire, Dry fire, use door way's for walls and pratice finding the dot while leaning, i use the couch, chair, and did i mention Dry fire.

[BSeevers]

Dry fire

[Azone41]

I shot an aimpoint for a long time but my last two open guns have had c mores. I would swear that the dot was hiding from me when I would draw. Then at area 4 this year Bob L at his booth showed me the up and straight out method and now I have no problems finding the dot. He explained to me that if you watch GMs when they run with the gun they hold it hi and close like the position it would be in if the pulled it out of the holster and came straight up then they push it straight out as they set up on the target. So when you start you basicly do an upside down L and as you get better you will start to round the corner more and more. I hope you understand what I am saying it so much easier to tell or show it then to type it. By the way Bob is a [Grand] Master and a heck of a gunsmith. Good luck with the Darkside It s hard to let go once you get hooked

Edited December 30, 2005 by Flexmoney

[Flyin40]

Reps, Reps, Reps.... After about a couple thousands reps finding the don't won't be an issue.

I like the idea if you get to a spot in the stage and have trouble finding the dot and using the dot module technique. I had a couple of times this yr where the stage put you in some off balance, akward shooting positions. Basically your out of position and the dot isn't there. I'll try using the dot module and the center of the lens to find it.

Flyin40

Edited December 29, 2005 by Flyin40

[diehli]

What BE (and others) have said: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20508