standles Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 10/12 ERML Range 4PM 86 Degrees F Glock 35 (KKM Stls Match bbl) Hogdon Titegroup Winchester Small Pistol Primers 1.125 OAL / .420 Taper Crimp 180 gr Truncated Cone Lead Valiant bullets Mixed Headstamp Brass 20 shot strings NOTES: Round needed to be seated a hair shorter. was having some problems with the round not seating all the way. On last 2 loads recoil was stiff and saw signs of pressure with primer flatenning and rectangular swipe of firing pin. ** Denotes load chosen for IPSC major (Most likely will settle on 4.0 grains of Tiegroup for IPSC Major) $$ Denotes load chosen for IDPA SSP Charge----------HI------------LO----------AVG---------ES--------SD----------PF --gr-------------FPS-----------FPS---------FPS----------FPS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3.0--------------787----------738---------762-----------49--------XX---------137 $$ 3.2--------------830----------764---------797-----------65--------17---------143 3.5--------------888----------835---------855-----------53--------14---------154 3.7--------------925----------876---------893-----------49--------12---------160 3.9--------------939----------917---------927-----------22--------07---------167 4.1--------------973----------946---------960-----------27--------07---------173 ** 4.3--------------1014---------982-------- 994-----------31--------08---------179 4.5--------------1024---------1004-------1013----------20--------06---------182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 good info to know. I know it takes 4.3gr of tg to make major for me. Same gun setup. I am using precision delta 180gr and loading to a legnth of 1.133 on avg, wsp, also factory crimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 1.125 OAL NOTES: Round needed to be seated a hair shorter. was having some problems with the round not seating all the way. Curious. You really shouldn't be getting seating problems at that depth. Not at all. In fact, you ought to be able to go longer without issue. I'd look to find out why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 I will double check the rounds I have left over to make sure the OAL was as I stated. I did drop them in a case guage and they worked fine. However, when I dropped a few in the KKM bbl chamber they were slightly above the hood of the bbl. I was assuming it was because they were long but I wil ldo more investigation this weekend. Steven Ps. Since this was pre KKM brass and mixed I did run it all through a EGW undersized die. I ended up having to lube them some to ease the resizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 You might look for fat bullet and/or a tight/short chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Sometimes custom bbls have shorter chambers than do factory bbls.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I'm getting ready to order something on the order of 32lbs of powder, and I'm teetering on the edge between N320 and tightgroup. The data looks good here, but have you done any group shooting comparisons? Just curious. Is TG a little smokier/dirtier than N320? Does it meter as well, the same, or better? Maybe I'll just run down and graba pound to check it out for myslef... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 32 lbs of 320 would require a bank loan.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Heh... almost, but I will use all of it probably between now and the end of next season... Powder is cheap compared to buying 30K primers and bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 TG meters well. It is not smokey at all. The dirtiness that people talk about is just a fine soot of discoloration. It is a non-factor. People that talk about it being truly dirty and smokey are often shooting 45, lead, at less than full power. I use TG in 40 with the Glock (KKM) for Major and Minor...USPSA, Steel Challenge, NRA Action-Pistol. I don't know if it is the most accurate or not. I do know that I am so happy with TG that the bottle of 320 that I have has never made it off the shelf for testing. TG gives me pretty low Standard Deviations. As good as the numbers are, people tell me that their testing shows that 320 gives even better numbers. Both are fantastic powders it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Well, depending on the quote I get for 320 tomorrow, I may just have to go with TG... Shooting as much as I plan to next year, I could stand to save as much as I can when reasonable. I "knew" you were using TG, but it just took me a while to get around to looking at faster powders... Until I started thinking about open, I really never considered a faster powder for my Limited pistol... Looks like I will stay in Limited for at least all of next year.... It'd probably take that long to take delivery on a custom open pistol anyway. Wonder if Cabela's has both powders? Haven't been to the new one here in Ft Worth... It'd be a good excuse. Thanks Kyle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 I'm getting ready to order something on the order of 32lbs of powder, and I'm teetering on the edge between N320 and tightgroup. The data looks good here, but have you done any group shooting comparisons? Just curious.Is TG a little smokier/dirtier than N320? Does it meter as well, the same, or better? Maybe I'll just run down and graba pound to check it out for myslef... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have not run any 320 or done group shooting comparisons. however, I like titegroup and chose it due to its reputation here as well as other shooters reccomendations. The fact that the cost is better and it meters extremely well for me and SD is low bears it out. I did measure the chamber of the KKM bbl versus the Factory Glock. I measured it from the step in the chamber where the case headspaces to the end of the bbl chamber. The KKM was ~.007" shorter than the Glock BBL. I loaded 200 rounds at 1.115 and had no problems with function. I also checked te old rounds and they were 1.130 instead of the 1.125 I reported. Later, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I did measure the chamber of the KKM bbl versus the Factory Glock. I measured it from the step in the chamber where the case headspaces to the end of the bbl chamber. The KKM was ~.007" shorter than the Glock BBL. I loaded 200 rounds at 1.115 and had no problems with function. I also checked te old rounds and they were 1.130 instead of the 1.125 I reported. Later, Steven <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Steven... Regarding the OAL of your test rounds. OAL is only tangentially important to the rounds actually fully seating to the headspacing step on a STOCK KKM barrel. The throat on a KKM is approximately 0.105". The seating depth of the bullet should hae very little to do with whether the round seats to the headspacing shoulder unless it is loaded out VERY long... significantly longer than a stock Glock mag will accept and/or feed. If the chamber on you KKM is 0.007" shorter than the Glock barrel (assuming the Glock barrel is max SAAMI spec of 0.850"), then your chamber is set at 0.843". If a round headspaces ABOVE the barrel hood face, then the likely causes for this on your short chamber are: 1) Brass in excess of 0.843" length after loading. 2) Case mouth not crimped sufficiently. 3) Over-sized bullet diameter and/or case wall thickness greater on some cases. The BULLET itself as relates to OAL should NOT be touching the ramped lands and thus should not be what's causing the round to be headspacing above the barrel hood. If you have ANY questions about this at all, please feel free to call/email me, as I have some experience working with this on G22/35 Glocks. (559)779-2944 cautery@montac.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 4. The rounds could have a fat bellied base, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 4. The rounds could have a fat bellied base, as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup... that too. I should have specified that my list was NOT all inclusive... and still isn't. Thanks Kyle! I'm a little distracted trying to finish my RO Level I exam to send in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 4. The rounds could have a fat bellied base, as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Standles - Another thing to check might be the diameter of the loaded round the entire length of the seated bullet. Thick brass might bulge out where the bullet is seated enough to inhibit free chambering in a minimum dimension barrel. I had this problem with the .45 ACP Bar-Sto barrel in my Commander. The cure was a Lee FCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45gunner Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 (edited) I have a puzzling question: In an attempt to solve an accuray problem with my Para 16-40 I chroned some bullets I reloaded. The velocity variations spread seems to be greater when shooting from a Para 16-40 than when shot through a Glock 35. I chronoed 3 groups of rounds: ............. 4.2 gr......................4.5 gr................. 4.7 gr Glock..... 882 (877 - 887)......919(908-936)......955(946-967) Para...... 822 (807 - 828)......857(839-880)......936(897-968) Temp is 40 degrees Brass WW (second hand) Primer WW small pistol primer OAL is 1.135 Power TightGroup Bullet Zero 180 gr JHP My question is why are the velocity variations so much greater for the Para than for the Glock 35? Edited January 8, 2006 by 45gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I have a puzzling question:In an attempt to solve an accuray problem with my Para 16-40 I chroned some bullets I reloaded. The velocity variations spread seems to be greater when shooting from a Para 16-40 than when shot through a Glock 35. I chronoed 3 groups of rounds: ............. 4.2 gr......................4.5 gr................. 4.7 gr Glock..... 882 (877 - 887)......919(908-936)......955(946-967) Para...... 822 (807 - 828)......857(839-880)......936(897-968) Temp is 40 degrees Brass WW (second hand) Primer WW small pistol primer OAL is 1.135 Power TightGroup Bullet Zero 180 gr JHP My question is why are the velocity variations so much greater for the Para than for the Glock 35? ANSWER: Superior platform, hexagonal rifling for better bullet-to-bore seal. @4.2gr the Glock is 60fps faster and the deviation is 20fps vs 21fps @4.5gr the Glock is 62fps faster and the deviation is 26fps vs 41fps @4.7gr the Glock is 19fps faster and the deviation is 21fps vs 71fps WOW did you really load 4.7gr TG for the Glock that has to be right there at the limit. Real ANSWER: I don't know. Free bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I don't find it hard to believe that a Glock has a better barrel than a Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Although I didn't own my Para .40 long enough to take the time to chrono loads through it, I've found the opposite when comparing my Glock 35 to my STIs. The STIs chrono about 50 fps HIGHER than my Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolduckboy Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 i have a factory barrel in a G35 (with 5.5oz Magwell and Steelguide rod) and have about 2000 rounds of WSPM primers. What should i start out at for a load of TG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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